[S1914] Discontinuing Support for “Legacy Mode”

Furry1

Sort of like Coke and Coke Classic. Good idea and perhaps you (Bytro) may want to check into the marketing story behind that before immediately saying NO. When Coke changed their formula and then brought back the old one it has become a legend about whether it was their biggest blunder or their biggest brilliant idea now.

Well of COURSE with the mobile version the player base will grow! The numbers you SHOULD be looking at is how many players are STAYING with Bytro if they have to play it solely on mobile. Legacy mode on mobile was a nightmare but with a little time devoted to it by Bytro it would have worked and been easy for ANYONE with a mobile device to run efficiently instead of now taking a chance on running a game turning your phone into a brick.

OH, and one more little question. Now that you've made your decision will you be refunding unused Goldmarks to the people closing their accounts at the end of the year?

From what I know the numbers of the new coke were not as good as the numbers of the old coke. So from that it is pretty clear why the numbers went up again when they brought back the classic coke.

In our example it is the other way around. The numbers of the new version are much better than the numbers of the old version. Therefore there is no reason to believe why bringing back the old version will give us any uplift.

Making a new game out of it would also not solve anything for us, because it would even increase the maintenance costs required compared to now. We rather use the freed up resource to improve the version which has proven to work better.

Of course we are looking into all relevant numbers. I am not sharing the whole analysis with you here, just the key points. I didnt meant to say that the player numbers only grew because of mobile. They grew because of mobile AND the revamp. Both events showed an uplift over the old version. And both combined work very well together.

Fact is the revamp version is able to attract and keep new players better than the legacy version, on both desktop and mobile. Fact is also that nowadays the majority of S1914 players play the game on mobile (and most of them exclusively), and nearly all of them play the game exclusively in revamp. The fraction of mobile players who play the game on legacy is even tinier than the number of desktop players who play the game on legacy. So the majority of S1914 players right now is able to play the game on mobile in revamp mode very well. I know that the new version is not perfect in terms of usability and performance and I already said multiple times now that we will keep improving it.

I can't comment on any customer support practices. Please reach out to our customer support directly in this regard.

LostRealist

Sorry, but I think I acknowledged pretty much every single point you raise there in this thread before? I even specifically acknowledged, multiple times, that I agree that an overhaul was due of some sort. This is not the issue that I have. The issue that I have is that from all the input from actual customers of both products, the opinion has been unequivocally given that Revamp presents several major steps backwards compared to Legacy. Some of which are very glaring and some of which are very hard to get behind.

I want to keep playing and enrichen you guys by 5 bucks every 25 days for whatever it's worth but Supremacy in Revamp is very hardly worth that to me because it just got worse. This is the thing that your numbers do not show you. That you haven't "evolved" the game as much as made it less attractive, which isn't apparent if you only look at the number of new players brought in especially by the mobile market. I mean, come on, do you realize how many players a glorified slot machine for children like Coin Master has on that market? Do you want to be the kind of company that puts its name under a product like that? Under its bank account probably, yeah. But that can't really be the direction that the standards of Bytro are headed as well? Mobile players will make any garbage look amazing on paper if you only count their numbers. I fear you guys are getting distracted by those numbers from the feedback of players who get to compare the two designs and most importantly from the actual drawbacks, that are very much there after two years still, that it has to the previous one. Or you have decided that those numbers are good enough to make much less improvement neccessary, if any. Granted that's great for the company but it's a dang shame about the game itself.

We are not only looking into the numbers of players that the new version attracts on mobile. We are looking on all the numbers, also the desktop numbers. The revamp is performing better (on average per player) in all relevant KPIs on all platforms.

It is true that there may still be aspects in the revamp which are subjectively not as good as in legacy. I already acknowledged that the new version is not perfect. And I already said that we will keep improving it. So not much else to say on that topic. I know actions will speak louder than words, so I guess you will have to wait for the patches in the future and see for yourself. It will be nothing over night though. Hope you will stick around long enough.

The revamp evolved and improved alot in the beginning after we introduced it because we got alot of feedback on it back then. In the last year or so the feedback and suggestions regarding the revamp died down a little (normally a sign that players are more or less fine with it), which probably also explains why in the recent times there were not that many improvements made. But now it seems the feedback regarding the revamp picks up again so there is reason to believe that also the number of improvements will pick up again.

Since I repeated all my talking points here already I guess further discussion will just run around in circles, so I will refrain of repeating them again. I know I probably can't convince you, I know that many of you love the legacy version very much. It is a subjective matter that no obective numbers can overcome. I came here to give you at least some insights why that decision was made from a business perspective and I hope that I could make you understand it better. I think from your feedback we also got a better understanding which aspects of legacy you like better. So this discussion was still worth it.

We are sorry that we have to do this and it also pains us to take a version away that still some players enjoy, but we have to do this. To repeat myself a final time: The new version is still in constant improvement and it will be improved further, with the help of your feedback. Thanks again for your feedback and your support!

freezy

The revamp evolved and improved alot in the beginning after we introduced it because we got alot of feedback on it back then.

I won't dispute that things have been done to Revamp then, but how much of a role player feedback played in that seems a little debatable to me. Was it player feedback that caused tactical army displays to disappear? Was it player feedback that caused the 2.5-D sprites to remain the way they are? Was it player feedback that led to it being much harder in Revamp to tell if a player is inactive or not and has in fact been made even harder just very recently? Why is it that nobody seems to realize how irrational some of these development decisions appear to somebody who's just playing the game? I also expressed my frustration about this before, so I'm also just repeating myself here. It just appears to the average observer that development may at the very most be cherry picking bits and pieces of consumer feedback it finds easy and cheap to implement while other, sometimes larger issues can get raised dozens of times and go unanswered and you wind up defending that by essentially saying "Well you guys didn't barrage us with inquests about the same issues over and over and over again for two years, so we didn't think you were serious when you first brought them up."

Been playing for 5 years and only do the 500maps theses days., with just over two months to go there is not enough time to play another round. So it time to say good bye to an old friend. I have tried to play the new UI many times but can't stand it one bit. It had an empty feel to it, thanks Bjesus legacy was still available. At least I will save some money now. Ciao BYTRO

zoetic

Been playing for 5 years and only do the 500maps theses days., with just over two months to go there is not enough time to play another round. So it time to say good bye to an old friend. I have tried to play the new UI many times but can't stand it one bit. It had an empty feel to it, thanks Bjesus legacy was still available. At least I will save some money now. Ciao BYTRO

Not sure if I've played against you Zoetic, you're not the first to already leave and I guarantee you will not be the last. Take care, friend.

Reimplement the legacy unit display in the revamp mode, please. That feature was really useful when it was the early stages of the revamp UI. I am not sure why Bytro removed that to begin with when it received no negative feedback from the community.

Furthermore, resizing or having a feature to toggle on/off the 3D models of units would be really convenient. When there are a lot of units involved in a small area when there's a battle going on, it's hard to track individual units. This really ruins the gameplay imo.

That will be all. I hope Bytro takes this into consideration for their next update.

The new "low graphics" option for Supremacy1 is a good step in my opinion. With the "tactical/legacy" unit sprites, it would be awesome. I really think there is a way to improve the new UI so it fits everyone

FYI just a single voice but if you kill legacy mode then for me the game is unplayable. The "other" version is pure shit,

Thanks for several years of gaming though.

GB

I will attempt to adapt , so Bytro should be prepared for much LOUD shouting and complaining form me

I would not have it any other way Hastings. I lament the loss, but understand the way of progress as well. A tight rope to walk, indeed, but the game dynamics remain, so a new paint job on an old house is worth the time to see if the furniture still works with it.

South Paw

I would not have it any other way Hastings. I lament the loss, but understand the way of progress as well. A tight rope to walk, indeed, but the game dynamics remain, so a new paint job on an old house is worth the time to see if the furniture still works with it.

Pretty good way of putting it I guess. Like a half-timbered building painted magenta, and inside some doorways were moved for no reason.

well everyone knows that there decision is final so instead complaining let's try to adapt revamp and help to make it better.

BTW I have some suggestions/demands that I want bytro to implement where to post thread related to that topic (those features were +nt earlier but removed in recent updates + some suggestions)

implement Legacy features into Revamp

Golden Buddha

implement Legacy features into Revamp

This.

Hmm, I guess one thing is that there was feedback given at the start of the revamp version, such as crowding of armies being hard to tell where their actual position is and the lack of colour contrast with the revamp's palette as well as armies being harder to read at a glance, and those issues still persist.

So I'm not sure I'm seeing the convincing improvement that makes me want to use the new mode over legacy, quite frankly.

Imperator42

Hmm, I guess one thing is that there was feedback given at the start of the revamp version, such as crowding of armies being hard to tell where their actual position is and the lack of colour contrast with the revamp's palette as well as armies being harder to read at a glance, and those issues still persist.

So I'm not sure I'm seeing the convincing improvement that makes me want to use the new mode over legacy, quite frankly.

Oh, but don't you see all the amazing changes they've made to Revamp recently? Just check out the most recent patch notes!

• The maximum number of units that can be displayed on a map was increased by 50% on desktop and 200% on mobile.
• The likelihood of the AI declaring war on smaller nations was slightly decreased.
• The likelihood of the AI declaring war on bigger nations was slightly increased.
• The advisor popup was replaced by a mission list that displays the information to give a nice and clear overview about advisor missions as well as feedback on the player’s progress.
• To allow players to avoid spending gold by mis-tapping on mobile, a confirmation popup can now be enabled in the game settings.

(That last one actually is quite huge, unsarcastically speaking)

I can see very clearly how serious they're taking our feedback here, yet again. Just as they did two years ago.

Just forget it. Supremacy is becoming a generic, freemium mobile game with a developer that can lean back and count their income while we're in here yelling at him how lazy he is. He doesn't hear us. It doesn't matter.

from other point of view:

we have a game for free from 13 years- we should be thankful for that no matter how we feel about changes

they left Legacy for over 2 years now even though they did not have too

game belongs to them, not us, so it is their decision how to use it. it is supposed to pay for their hard work and earn for maintenance

if you look at it from that perspective somehow it feels easier to let go anger

you got here from Java to HTML

you will get from HTML to Revamp

Golden Buddha

you got here from Java to HTML

you will get from HTML to Revamp

That's been brought up before and I dispute that. You were around back then as well, so you should know why. Comparing these two transitions is ineffective.

And sure, it's their game, they can do what they like. I just like the game a lot and hate to see it become worse.

you, me and others are not a target for developers

target is a new generation

same happened to other companies which changed target audience. You remember what happened to Star Wars Galaxies when they allowed Pay to Become Jedi thing. nothing players can do about that. Some other game will benefit from players dropping here.

you are customer and you decide which services you use and for which you pay. Not game developers. If you are interested in very high level and competitive titles- let me know, I will drop you links. Those are kind of games created for competitive players. Supremacy is more for people with a lot of activity but not to much skills. Though some go for a lot of cheating and I find it difficult to report all of them after report buttons were removed.

tbh I havent met a good player since 2017 so i guess all pro-players have already left. And even that single individual was the first instance of a good player since 2015. I see only HNR lvl 1 - the most basic strategy. very disappointing.

Golden Buddha

tbh I havent met a good player since 2017 so i guess all pro-players have already left. And even that single individual was the first instance of a good player since 2015. I see only HNR lvl 1 - the most basic strategy.

Yeah that's true. The whole community basically died a slow death in the last five years. That's probably not all Bytro's fault but it's a symptom of something.

Anyway, you're right about one thing, and that is that it all won't do any good. Bytro has commited themselves to marketing this game to a young, casual audience with low standards and loose money. They have spent the last few years gradually pulling out of the community, lowering their workload and any expectations they might otherwise be confronted with. None of us are going to change any of that. I just like to use my last couple of weeks around here to tell them how it sucks after spending plenty of time trying to help development and improving the game for a lukewarm "Thanks mate" at the very best. Afterall, does marketing to that new generation mean you have to make your UI harder to use and inferiour to the previous version? There was a time when I was sincerely convinced that the answer to this was obviously "No" and that Bytro would care about that and show a genuine interest in providing the best product they possibly could. That was about two years ago. What has happened in development since then makes it clear that either I was wrong or the company just can't do any better.

And it sucks. I had a really good time here. This is a really good, unique game. There was no need to change that, new generation or not. But if I take a step back now and assess the "State of Supremacy1914" for lack of a less pathetic term, it's a generically presented, random RTS game on Steam and the App Store like hundreds of others, managed by a company like all the others on those markets as well, with no mentionable "community" or much less "fan base" surrounding it anymore. I mean, come on, we have a global forum and there's like ten people active here.

If you throw me some of the links you mentioned, I'll sure check them out. Not so sure I'll get myself to look real deep, but I'll look for sure.

I would say that Bytro doesn't want competitive gaming

they do not prefer skilled players as skilled player can massacre 496 other players on 500 map and win single handed. this is not how you do a good business as people simply run of the map or fill lots of reports about cheating with scripts ... whatever. if you do not understand game mechanic - everything will be a cheat

point is that since introduction of HNR focus was on activity vs GMs as activity is generating more GMs than skilled players and causes less tickets and tensions on maps. This is why we do not have any mechanics to protect our troops during afk against HNR.

As such Revamp is also harder to use by skilled players ... it doesn't allow precise calculations and troops movement. so removing legacy will get rid of the rest of us. simple as that.

Time to change game mates

Good Fight

Good night