Encirclements were a big part of ww2 and in any war in general. It is actually quite surprisng that "encirclemets" have no value here. I think they should be applied. This brings a hell lot of realism into the game and I know some people will disagree with excessive realism, afterall its just a game. I'm not in the favour of excessive realism, but this will be an amazing addition and a huge update if implemented properly.
CONCEPT:-
The concept is simple, any encircled army will lose some part of its health at a constant rate, as long as it is surrounded by all sides. An army needs supplies to run. Logistics are the backbone of warfare. An encircled army can surely run on its own for a certain time before supplies run out, then the health of unit will degrade. Only possible chance for the unit to stop losing health will be to attempt a breakout.
Going in details,I'll say every army will have its "Supply time(ST)" . This means the time till which a unit even if encircled doesn't lose it health for a fixed time and even regain 1/7th of its total health ( like usual).
Smaller stacks will have greater ST and larger stacks will have smaller ST, maybe a mechanism can be added to extend the ST of any army.
WHY IT SHOULD BE ADDED:-
A lot of player stack an army of 30 units in early game in 1 single province which is very irritating to deal with, how can such a massive encircled reagin its health, this is simply against logic and very unhistorical.
This will be a very interesting concept, might even attract players. Players won't be able to use this illogical "tactic" any long. This is will make the game more fun as well. Players will come up with new plans which will be a thing to look out for.
Please submit your views onto this topic and let me know if you agree or not, thanks!
TMC
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36 Replies
8 Jul 2023, 18:11
a way of doing this could be to use the units Production cost as a baseline for supplies if surrounded units at day change don't get healed have 1 24 hour grace period before the clock starts then units start loosing a fixed number of resources every hour based on their type if the stack runs out of oil they cant move if they run out of goods no ranged firing if they run out of food they are eliminated you could request a fixed amount and type of supply drop from an airbase or air field could which you could choose what resource to send exempt militia and commandos form these rules units with a coast you could request a supply ship from your ports both the plane and ship would have to get to the encircled units after they were produced
the air base and pots could request supply drops based on the level of the base or port.
9 Jul 2023, 02:32
1101Pathfinder wrote:
Exempt Militia and commandos
Along with paratroopers-great idea. Perhaps rockets too? Then again they’d probably need supplies to run.
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
9 Jul 2023, 04:48
Yup agreed with the suggestions
TMC
9 Jul 2023, 12:31
Carking the 6th wrote:
The Mister Class wrote:
Encirclements aren't complex at all, I tried to make it as simple as possible. Little complexity is what we need, a big update and they should introduce seasons also.
I think seasons are a bit too much, and may throw things off. But encirclements are not a bad idea, though you’d need to have some way to define them. Is it land not connected to your capital? Any land surrounded by enemies with only a certain amount of provinces? Do ports prevent them? For example would East Prussia in the HWW map be encircled?
I would say that the "land not connected to the capital would be more like supply lines.
The Mister Class wrote:
Yup agreed with the suggestions
They are all pretty good, Commandos and Paratroopers should be exempt, It might be a bit too powerful if militia are though. I think that ships should also be able to make naval encirclements, and possibly even blockades.
9 Jul 2023, 12:37
Zaktty wrote:
Carking the 6th wrote:
The Mister Class wrote:
Encirclements aren't complex at all, I tried to make it as simple as possible. Little complexity is what we need, a big update and they should introduce seasons also.
I think seasons are a bit too much, and may throw things off. But encirclements are not a bad idea, though you’d need to have some way to define them. Is it land not connected to your capital? Any land surrounded by enemies with only a certain amount of provinces? Do ports prevent them? For example would East Prussia in the HWW map be encircled?
I would say that the "land not connected to the capital would be more like supply lines.
The Mister Class wrote:
Yup agreed with the suggestions
They are all pretty good, Commandos and Paratroopers should be exempt, It might be a bit too powerful if militia are though. I think that ships should also be able to make naval encirclements, and possibly even blockades.
All good for the most part. Though I’m still not sure about the size. How big can an encircled place be? Would the British empire be for example restricted? I guess ports solve the issue but how will blockades work? Block every route to a countries capital by sea or land? Do trade embargo fleets cause blockades?
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
9 Jul 2023, 12:54
Carking the 6th wrote:
All good for the most part. Though I’m still not sure about the size. How big can an encircled place be? Would the British empire be for example restricted? I guess ports solve the issue but how will blockades work? Block every route to a countries capital by sea or land? Do trade embargo fleets cause blockades?
First, there should the amount of health loss in an encirclement should go down the more provinces encircled.
Secondly, I think the limit should be 3-5 provinces since an attacking army probably could hold that.
That should be different if naval blockades are added.
9 Jul 2023, 13:16
Zaktty wrote:
Carking the 6th wrote:
All good for the most part. Though I’m still not sure about the size. How big can an encircled place be? Would the British empire be for example restricted? I guess ports solve the issue but how will blockades work? Block every route to a countries capital by sea or land? Do trade embargo fleets cause blockades?
First, there should the amount of health loss in an encirclement should go down the more provinces encircled.
Secondly, I think the limit should be 3-5 provinces since an attacking army probably could hold that.
That should be different if naval blockades are added.
How would the amount of health lost work? Does it depend on how many units you have? How long you get cut off? How many provinces you have? Etc… what are the numbers? Plenty of details to smooth over here!
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
9 Jul 2023, 14:34
3-5 provinces will be ideal for En. Every unit will have a fixed percentage of health drained, and a stack will drain its health in average of the percentage. Like if a stack has 3 units which drain 5%,10% and 3% health daily coz of En. then the health drained by the stack will be (5+10+3) %/3=6% of total health. That's how it will work. Armies, however, should be encircled for 24 hours to drain health, it's not like En. rules will apply if you are only encircled for 5hr. The smaller the number of encircled provinces the more health will be drained.
in simple words, every unit will drain different % of health for the number of provinces encircled.
If all the naval paths to a certain piece of land/unit is also blocked, then it will be considered to be Encircled and the rules will apply.
TMC
9 Jul 2023, 14:56
The Mister Class wrote:
3-5 provinces will be ideal for En. Every unit will have a fixed percentage of health drained, and a stack will drain its health in average of the percentage. Like if a stack has 3 units which drain 5%,10% and 3% health daily coz of En. then the health drained by the stack will be (5+10+3) %/3=6% of total health. That's how it will work. Armies, however, should be encircled for 24 hours to drain health, it's not like En. rules will apply if you are only encircled for 5hr. The smaller the number of encircled provinces the more health will be drained.
in simple words, every unit will drain different % of health for the number of provinces encircled.
If all the naval paths to a certain piece of land/unit is also blocked, then it will be considered to be Encircled and the rules will apply.
Is a city as much as one province? So if your cut off but you have a city it’s the same as if it was just provinces?
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
9 Jul 2023, 15:08
Carking the 6th wrote:
The Mister Class wrote:
3-5 provinces will be ideal for En. Every unit will have a fixed percentage of health drained, and a stack will drain its health in average of the percentage. Like if a stack has 3 units which drain 5%,10% and 3% health daily coz of En. then the health drained by the stack will be (5+10+3) %/3=6% of total health. That's how it will work. Armies, however, should be encircled for 24 hours to drain health, it's not like En. rules will apply if you are only encircled for 5hr. The smaller the number of encircled provinces the more health will be drained.
in simple words, every unit will drain different % of health for the number of provinces encircled.
If all the naval paths to a certain piece of land/unit is also blocked, then it will be considered to be Encircled and the rules will apply.
Is a city as much as one province? So if your cut off but you have a city it’s the same as if it was just provinces?
Cities should last longer because of sieges, e.g. the battle of Caen.
9 Jul 2023, 15:10
Different rates for a city compared to 1 single province, agreed with @Zaktty cities should hold longer and drainage rate should be less.
TMC
9 Jul 2023, 16:24
Encirclement is a tactical concept. Doesn't belong in a grand strategy game.
Good idea, wrong game, like bridges and rivers.
9 Jul 2023, 16:35
z00mz00m wrote:
Encirclement is a tactical concept. Doesn't belong in a grand strategy game.
Good idea, wrong game, like bridges and rivers.
Encirclements happen in all the big paradox games. Hell even in age of history! They are definitely a strategic concept, with encirclements like those of the BEF in France, Soviets in Kyiv and the German 6th army in Stalingrad all heavily effecting the wars they fought in. It’s not to complex of a feature, so a game like COW could probably Handle it.
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
9 Jul 2023, 16:43
Cow can handle it
TMC
9 Jul 2023, 16:47
You are describing tactical situations. CoW does not have a concept of supply lines. Resources move by magic from every corner of your empire to every other corner. Instantly, with no waste, at no cost. Ships and planes can drop bombs all game long without resupply. Air fields can spring up in the middle of nowhere, holding endless stacks of planes that get unlimited fuel and ammo, forever. It's not realistic but it's how the game works. Encirclement does not belong in such a game.
9 Jul 2023, 16:47
Of course it’s more a question of should you add it? Everything has unforeseen consequences, and we still have a few things about this feature to iron out before we can even think about those!
