In a different thread, a popular misconception was brought up recently - that carriers are basically a useless (or very limited-use) unit and they shouldn't be built. I don't really understand why carriers are so unpopular - they are simply a GREAT unit, and barely a 100p map goes by where I don't build them. Let me make some observations:
- Obviously, you will need enough of them to base a complete air force on them. We're talking 20+ capacity; any group under that is, indeed, practically useless...
- except for the carrier bridge; carriers are also very useful when there's an ocean between your main production centres and the battlefield. Bringing planes from South America to Africa, for example, typically takes 3 hours embarking, many long hours of sailing, and 3h disembarking. Not even talking about all the dangers lurking in the skies or under the water here. A single carrier (plains are typically built drip-wise, so you don't need much capacity) halfway reduces that to less than an hour flying and two refuelling stops.
- Back to the 20+ operational carrier group. They are a mobile air base which can provide air cover when your landing forces are at their most vulnerable - those horrific 4.5 hours when they are basically sitting ducks to anything the defender throws at them. True, traditional navy can also provide this role, but air is much more versatile, for example, they can take on an enemy force inland that is coming up to the coast to defend, or take on an RRG that is out of range for ship artillery.
- After the invasion, carriers can sail up the coast to support the part of your expansion which moves along that coast. And with "along the coast" I mean up to 3-4 provinces, which isn't an unusual range for most planes. Every air user knows about the annoying 5h wait time to build an air base in a province you just conquered to support the troops rushing further ahead; your rush screen can even be blocked by a few infantry or AT units then. Carriers can come up much faster, and clear blockers like that easily. A naval invasion doesn't even have t be involved; when you are expanding from, say, Indochina to Khabarovsk, your carriers will be there for you immediately, every step of the way. And on top of all that, your planes don't have to refuel when rebasing - their base comes with them and many more half-hours of refuelling are won.
(and I'm not even talking here about the risk of losing arovince again (to a rebellion, a straddler unit, you name it) and having to wait for another 5h)
- And of course, when you get too far inland, you can just build a new air base network in the occupied territories, and start using them as "normal" land-based planes again
- A carrier group can't be gold razed like an air strip can. Nor is it vulnerable to strategic or tactical bombers; a carrier air force will never be "trucked" unless the carriers are sunk.
- Bringing up AA to an air strip can be a real pain in the ass - and we all know how much we would want to. Or maybe we don't even know that anymore; it is simply impossible. In practice, even the most used air strips are not defended by AA. Still, there will always be a situation where you're refuelling, and vulnerable to enemy bombers - but AA takes so long to get there; and then when the main air base changes, you have to bring it there again - hours of marching even in the best circumstances. For fleets, it is easy - just send some cruisers along and your base is safe from those nuisances.
- And all of that, you get for just an extra 17% cost for your planes - assuming you're using L3 carriers with 6 capacity, so you need one for every six planes, that's 17%. Oh it doesn't work exactly like that of course; you'll have to do research and shipyards too. But on the other hand, they don't eat goods and rares (always popular for big air people) but food and steel, which don't really mess up your aircraft production schemes.
All hail the flat tops!
Please log in to post a reply.
We'll just agree to disagree. Most of these carrier examples could be done equally well or better without carriers. Like sinking a large convoy that doesn't have any escorts. What does that prove? A stack of cruisers could do that without suffering any damage.
Who needs carriers when you got 6000 km range 
https://prnt.sc/K3zE8za30_VL This is the flying fortress in Iron Order. Besides massive range and huge damage to everything, when it attacks it leaves a firestorm that tics high damage every 5 minutes for two hours. It will destroy all units, buildings and morale in a city with one hit. But actually I've been using carriers with these to get closer to targets.
Oh and the carriers can do ranged damage and deploy torpedo boats!
Nuclear bombs
Honestly, I was gonna be surprised, but then you mentioned Iron Order, and I'm indifferent now.DxC wrote:
Who needs carriers when you got 6000 km rangeOh and the carriers can do ranged damage and deploy torpedo boats!
I always thought Iron Order was a WW 1 game?DxC wrote:
Who needs carriers when you got 6000 km rangeOh and the carriers can do ranged damage and deploy torpedo boats!
It's intentionally fictional.
I found that stack with my planes….z00mz00m wrote:
We'll just agree to disagree. Most of these carrier examples could be done equally well or better without carriers. Like sinking a large convoy that doesn't have any escorts. What does that prove? A stack of cruisers could do that without suffering any damage.
Spies can too!
I almost never get reveal armies with my spies. And I usually just put many in an enemy only for intel. I don’t waste my time with sabotage. It’s a pain when it happens to you, but intel is better. For reveal and communication intercepts especially.Carking the 6th wrote:
Spies can too!
If you put 6 mil sabotage spies in an empty rural province you’ll almost always get reveal all
Like CK6 says, don't use intel when you want reveals, use MilSabs in a place where there's nothing to sabotage.NickXXXNick wrote:
I almost never get reveal armies with my spies. And I usually just put many in an enemy only for intel. I don’t waste my time with sabotage. It’s a pain when it happens to you, but intel is better. For reveal and communication intercepts especially.Carking the 6th wrote:
Spies can too!
Or milsab everything when it's the end game and you don't care about money.
Back to carriers, it's basically like this: are planes good? If you say no, are we playing the same game? Lol.
If you say yes, then sometimes they're the best option for getting vital planes where you need then.
Try invading me across an ocean without using carriers. It likely will not go well for you. Either you are not using planes which will be a severe disadvantage for you, or you are trying to take Alaska or intermediate islands first to make airbases, which will negate your surprise advantage, or you are sailing your planes across on transports, which is extremely sketchy.
If we're talking about taking control of the seas, it can be done without carriers, but you will possibly be at a disadvantage against a good player who is using all the available tools.
Some players can be conquered using only infantry; does that mean tanks are not worthwhile? Of course they are. They are another tool at your disposal.
one example that no surface ship can do better is that Carriers can deal with multiple threat simultaneously, they can strike something in the east while intercept reinforcement from the west, Carrier are more flexible despite being more fragile.z00mz00m wrote:
We'll just agree to disagree. Most of these carrier examples could be done equally well or better without carriers. Like sinking a large convoy that doesn't have any escorts. What does that prove? A stack of cruisers could do that without suffering any damage.
they isn't your only tool, you got submarine, surface ship, land troops, military sabotage spy etc. to work as a effective fighting forces and carriers as it's center.
Carrier true weakness isn't in the carrier itself but it's Aircraft, 1-4 days of intensive bombing/dogfight (depends on the scale of the battle and aircraft you carry) and you need to go home to replace your wounded aircraft with the new one or just simply land on newly conquered province to heal some hp.
Please explain this to me like I’m 5 years old.Carking the 6th wrote:
If you put 6 mil sabotage spies in an empty rural province you’ll almost always get reveal all
Pretty simple. Doesn’t actually have to be rural. Find a province with no buildings. Add around 6 military sabotage spies. That’s literally it.
You can sabotage even if there is nothing there to sabotage. Each mil sabotage has a chance to reveal armies.NickXXXNick wrote:
Please explain this to me like I’m 5 years old.Carking the 6th wrote:
If you put 6 mil sabotage spies in an empty rural province you’ll almost always get reveal all
5 year old version: spy baddies can steal your map!!! Like Cobra did to GI Joe!!!
Note added in proof. What happens if one player has no carriers and only surface ships?
-Yes CK, again- It was an epic naval battle because of carriers.
Reminder Red has 30 planes patrolling but not seem. Both have 5 lvl 3 carriers. White is using island air strips and carriers. Red only has carriers for his planes. Well out of range for any land bases. Another reason carriers are badass.
ChatGPT wrote:
To a 5-year-old: If you want to learn secret things in a game, pretend you have a special team of 6 spy friends. You send them to a place with no houses, and the next day, you'll know what the bad guys are up to in the game.
Military sabotage are important element in my carrier strike group above surface ship.NickXXXNick wrote:
Please explain this to me like I’m 5 years old.Carking the 6th wrote:
If you put 6 mil sabotage spies in an empty rural province you’ll almost always get reveal all
you literally able to pearl harbored everyone cus you have total vision over enemy positions. I've done this many times.
put 5 or more MilSab spy in province with no building - high chance of revealing all enemy army within daychange and let the carrier do the job
Holy shit. I’m a do that before change of day. ThxTolol_aja wrote:
Military sabotage are important element in my carrier strike group above surface ship.you literally able to pearl harbored everyone cus you have total vision over enemy positions. I've done this many times.NickXXXNick wrote:
Please explain this to me like I’m 5 years old.Carking the 6th wrote:
If you put 6 mil sabotage spies in an empty rural province you’ll almost always get reveal allput 5 or more MilSab spy in province with no building - high chance of revealing all enemy army within daychange and let the carrier do the job
Please log in to post a reply.
