Thoughts about...

15 Jun 2018, 19:13

Wanted to start this thread in order to know the thoughts of the community about the fact that we're not able to know who is disembarking on your land until they already disembarked. Obviously you can get a report from spies to have some idea if the enemy is going to disembark on your land but there's clever people out there who knows how to avoid spies, also its impossible to cover all the land you have in late game so...

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25 Replies

15 Jun 2018, 19:21

I never even knew this was a thing. Either I make very good assumptions or I do not have as many people attacking me at one time to experience this issue, but I have never come across it.

15 Jun 2018, 19:25

Quasi-duck wrote:
I never even knew this was a thing. Either I make very good assumptions or I do not have as many people attacking me at one time to experience this issue, but I have never come across it.

Already lost a few games because of this, thought it was a bug back in 2015, but a developer said it wasn't so... xD

15 Jun 2018, 19:33

nemuritor98 wrote:
Already lost a few games because of this, thought it was a bug back in 2015, but a developer said it wasn't so... xD

Lol yeah, they love little "features" like this. Do you still have this problem?

15 Jun 2018, 19:34

Quasi-duck wrote:
nemuritor98 wrote:
Already lost a few games because of this, thought it was a bug back in 2015, but a developer said it wasn't so... xD
Lol yeah, they love little "features" like this. Do you still have this problem?

Right now, yes

15 Jun 2018, 20:32

I can't make heads or tales of that, ss is too big. All I can see is that someone with the US tech tree has invaded you with multiple beach heads, and that you've no units in place to halt their advance bar air power.

15 Jun 2018, 20:49 (edited)

Quasi-duck wrote:
I can't make heads or tales of that, ss is too big. All I can see is that someone with the US tech tree has invaded you with multiple beach heads, and that you've no units in place to halt their advance bar air power.

Basically he sent 1 unit to every one of the provinces on the north east coast and also a group of 15 to the west coast(illinois), meanwhile colorado sent a group of 80 units through panama, kentucky sent another group of 15 a few cities away from where the group from illinois disembarked(image), i got the map from kentucky and i knew he was going to disembark somewhere near his position, but i couldn't know until my coastal provinces fall that illinois was disembarking in the whole northeast coast

PD: where's the point here? the point is that meanwhile i was online and watching the map, someone have been disembarking on MY land and i couldn't knew it so i couldn't send planes earlier to avoid my provinces getting conquered as the disembark is 4 hours and 30 minutes, it doesn't make any sense to not be able to see what is going on in your own province

15 Jun 2018, 21:06

Hmm, odd, just the other day I bombed a fellow's invasion fleet with my aircraft, I myself have never had this problem. What browser do you use?

15 Jun 2018, 21:07

I do like this feature the way it is. Provinces can only show what is within them, not anything outside the border. This goes for land borders and ocean borders both. Only units have a sight range and can see past a border, so as to see troops disembarking on the beach, or units massed at a land border ready for a charge.

I feel that there does need to be some weakness as players expand in size they must accept some risk of having borders that they can't defend all the time, and choices must be made to place units for observation or spies to reveal enemy movement, or to go without. To me this seems like part of the strategy of the game. Guessing your opponents moves, trying to read what your enemy is thinking so you can counter it. Any fool can drive tanks around the map, so the game is to understand your opponents and to figure out how they think so you can prepare for them. How to draw them into your trap and kill the most units with the least losses.

So I vote to leave it the way it is. Sorry to disagree Nem.

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VorlonFCW
Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.
>>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<

15 Jun 2018, 21:32

Quasi-duck wrote:
Hmm, odd, just the other day I bombed a fellow's invasion fleet with my aircraft, I myself have never had this problem. What browser do you use?

it's not a bug

15 Jun 2018, 22:01

VorlonFCW wrote:
Provinces can only show what is within them, not anything outside the border

i wouldn't say disembarking is outside the border, in fact, i would say it's in between your province and the sea, not either of them

VorlonFCW wrote:
Only units have a sight range and can see past a border, so as to see troops disembarking on the beach, or units massed at a land border ready for a charge.

i know that, but here's the curious part, in S1914 the feature is similar, you can't see past your border if you don't have an unit, but you can see if someone is disembarking on your land. in addition, infantry gets created automatically and you get to have waaaaay bigger stacks of units due to that so can you use as many units as you want if you are a big country, however, if it gets compared to CoW, you have waaaay less units as you have to create manually all of them so it isn't automatically and you can't see what's even happening on your border, so my question here is, why did bytro decide to remove the sight to your own beach taking in count you have way less units?

VorlonFCW wrote:
I feel that there does need to be some weakness

thought 25% production was enough tho

VorlonFCW wrote:
choices must be made to place units for observation

i agree with you on this point, but i don't agree with the fact that there's no land unit for passive observation in CoW, i remove from the equation the planes as you have to set them manually and the submarines as even if they can be used for observation i don't think that's their main role, regarding land units, the one with most vision, if i'm not wrong is the armored car but still not worth it to put a car in each coastal province

VorlonFCW wrote:
spies to reveal enemy movement

24 hours is a pretty big amount of hours as you can embark and disembark almost 3 times in one day, unless we're talking about several gold spies during the day

VorlonFCW wrote:
Guessing your opponents moves, trying to read what your enemy is thinking so you can counter it. Any fool can drive tanks around the map, so the game is to understand your opponents and to figure out how they think so you can prepare for them.

well,

“There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.”

― Arthur Conan Doyle,

however, thinking big, we could say south america is a giant island. taking in count all my enemies, in this case, are from north america, it was pretty obvious that if they wanted to conquer me, they had to disembark someday.

it sounds good what you wrote there but technically talking, is pretty much useless as you can't figure out what an enemy will do in the next 24 hours even tho you had a spy report and also taking in count the fact that he started the war at the moment your first province falled due to a disembark you couldn't see

VorlonFCW wrote:
How to draw them into your trap and kill the most units with the least losses.

still not enough,

my luck is that my core provinces are right in the middle of the continent so i don't have to care much about them being taken as it won't happen

would be sad if i wouldn't had that luck tho

by the way, almost forgot it, in S1914 you have a unit which its only purpose is to improve your sight, either its a province or a bunch of units

15 Jun 2018, 22:43

I agree with Vorlon's point of view.

I remember the first setting of 2015 which was a real problem, where you could not see enemies while they are marching via your own provinces.

Just as it has since been that your country can see stranger troops, but "the country" can not look over the borders, is exactly the right "mix" in my opinion.

Given the length of time disembarkation takes, it would be too great an "imbalance" in favor of the defender if "the country" could already see troops at disembarkation.

As a state with (long) coastlines one should permanently patrol with a couple of subs on zigzagging off shore.

That provides enough early warning time and requires just a few units / resources.

[spoiler=simple example ] Forum attachment

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=very extreme example ] Forum attachment

[/spoiler]

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15 Jun 2018, 22:47

Restrisiko wrote:
very extreme example

someone had time on their hands

"White Fang knew the law well: To oppress the weak and obey the strong"
Jack London, White Fang
My parents once told me not to play with matches, so I built a flamethrower

15 Jun 2018, 22:58

NukeRaider33 wrote:
Restrisiko wrote:
very extreme example
someone had time on their hands

Right - when it rains outside in the garden and the pub is still closed, and the wife is out for shopping, then you can do quite a lot as a pensioner - assuming you have good ideas ..

15 Jun 2018, 23:31

Restrisiko wrote:
As a state with (long) coastlines one should permanently patrol with a couple of subs on zigzagging off shore.
That provides enough early warning time and requires just a few units / resources.

I guess it's just me that I lost the naval battle in a 3v1

15 Jun 2018, 23:50

Restrisiko wrote:
NukeRaider33 wrote:
Restrisiko wrote:
very extreme example
someone had time on their hands
Right - when it rains outside in the garden and the pub is still closed, and the wife is out for shopping, then you can do quite a lot as a pensioner - assuming you have good ideas ..

Or if the boys don't want to play hockey, the Right and Honorable Justin Trudeau is not saying anything interesting, there is no Maple syrup in the fridge, The moose don't want to have a staring contest and the snowstorm is so dense you cant see a metre in front of your face,, you can do this:

Forum attachment

"White Fang knew the law well: To oppress the weak and obey the strong"
Jack London, White Fang
My parents once told me not to play with matches, so I built a flamethrower

15 Jun 2018, 23:52

i wrote thoughts about... in the title so we can talk about whatever we want as there's not a main theme to follow, seems now it's a thoughts about our hilarious routes in the sea

16 Jun 2018, 04:18

Restrisiko wrote:
I agree with Vorlon's point of view.
I remember the first setting of 2015 which was a real problem, where you could not see enemies while they are marching via your own provinces.
Just as it has since been that your country can see stranger troops, but "the country" can not look over the borders, is exactly the right "mix" in my opinion.
Given the length of time disembarkation takes, it would be too great an "imbalance" in favor of the defender if "the country" could already see troops at disembarkation.
As a state with (long) coastlines one should permanently patrol with a couple of subs on zigzagging off shore.
That provides enough early warning time and requires just a few units / resources.
[spoiler=simple example ]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=very extreme example ]
[/spoiler]

1) Subs: I agree that ideally one should have at least a couple subs patrolling one's coastline(s).

2) Should have at least units in a portion of coastal provinces. Won't catch everything but the more provinces the attacker tries to land in the sooner one knows there is an attack coming.

3) If you are already at war, you need to have as many of the coastal provinces covered as practical.

4) Naval bombers: Send out naval patrols reconning the coastal areas. Again won't catch everything but increases your chances of spotting a submarine reconning you or a convoy in nearby waters. Often an enemy will recon with a sub to see if you have any defender in the coastal province(s).

16 Jun 2018, 04:52

nemuritor98 wrote:
Wanted to start this thread in order to know the thoughts of the community about the fact that we're not able to know who is disembarking on your land until they already disembarked. Obviously you can get a report from spies to have some idea if the enemy is going to disembark on your land but there's clever people out there who knows how to avoid spies, also its impossible to cover all the land you have in late game so...

Once the enemy starts disembarking...are you not seeing the nations flag on the convoy?

Rest is up to you...

16 Jun 2018, 11:05

WarPtyLtd wrote:
Once the enemy starts disembarking

that's what i don't see xD

16 Jun 2018, 15:20

WarPtyLtd wrote:
Once the enemy starts disembarking...are you not seeing the nations flag on the convoy?

No. If one of your own units is not at least within "fuzzy" view you will see nothing at all until the units are fully disembarked and have crawled up fully into your province. So the first thing you see is the armored car zipping to your province center, presumably with the remaining force timed to not appear until the province is captured.

Properly executed by the invader it works quite well.

Restrisiko wrote:
Given the length of time disembarkation takes, it would be too great an "imbalance" in favor of the defender if "the country" could already see troops at disembarkation.

I will agree with this. If you could see all of the units disembarking and what they were you could have eliminated the entire invasion force with a few groups of Tactical bombers before they even got fully disembarked. So the trade off would have to be less time spent disembarking in my opinion.

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