With ideal play, which doctrine is the most potent?

Such a hard question to answer, depends on 2000 factors. Depending on map it can be ANY doctrine. You’d need to be 15,000 times more specific, and even then you’d have to take everything said with a grain of salt, knowing that it doesn’t actually matter for the game.

Choosing the most potent country or game mode would be better; there’s too much variety in doctrines.

Not sure why BM is the measuring stick here.

Taking "Playing ideally" to mean some sort of GTO/unexploitable strategy it has to be Axis. Huge buffs to two hugely important units + overall strength.

In essence each doctrine is created balanced and equal, but a meta has developed among experienced players that dominates other play styles and is almost compulsory to move up to higher levels of competition.

The elite meta is based on railroad guns, giving the Axis an edge in that regard. This meta also favours interceptor spam over tactical, attack, or strategic bombers which gives the buffed Pan-Asian interceptors a huge edge. These two tend to be the favourites among top notch players, although they'd just tell you the meta works for any doctrine.

Allies still have a lot of potential in the late game using this meta since their production times are so useful, especially in the air war. Their biggest disadvantage is their railroad guns are the slowest, which particularly causes problems against Axis railroad guns but can also be a major issue against Pan-Asian players.

The Comintern run into trouble with the air war since their interceptors are the worst in the game. It's possible to overcome this problem, but it's a a pretty tight rope you have to walk. I say this is a Comintern main, who believes in casual maps Comintern players can still win air superiority pretty easily. But against strong players using the RRG meta, it gets pretty tough.

They really need to end the RRG meta, they were basically useless in WW2 yet they’re one of the most powerful units in the game.

Carking the 6th wrote:

They really need to end the RRG meta, they were basically useless in WW2 yet they’re one of the most powerful units in the game.

The worst part is the devs did not intend for RRGs to be the meta, observed them become the meta, observed them become the only viable way to compete at high levels, then actually made them easier to research and produce

There's a proposal being floated to split them into two levels (a good idea) along with some other potential changes, I think. I can't remember the specifics. If they do sufficiently nerf it so that it's no long singularly meta defining, I would consider changing my answer to Pan Asian.

I sure as hell hope they do. I’d wager that it’s the worst-balanced part of the entire game.

jubjub bird wrote:

There's a proposal being floated to split them into two levels (a good idea) along with some other potential changes, I think. I can't remember the specifics. If they do sufficiently nerf it so that it's no long singularly meta defining, I would consider changing my answer to Pan Asian.

Which means to me that they have somewhat steady/stable income as it is now and they're scared of changing things too much and potentially getting it wrong, which is understandable. Any significant changes are a gamble at the end of the day, especially if it upsets your best and most loyal players who lead the community both in and outside of the game.

Even if they completely removed RRG’s, I wouldn’t be deathly angry. They can afford to take a balancing risk here, at least in my eyes, of course.

Klusey wrote:

jubjub bird wrote:

There's a proposal being floated to split them into two levels (a good idea) along with some other potential changes, I think. I can't remember the specifics. If they do sufficiently nerf it so that it's no long singularly meta defining, I would consider changing my answer to Pan Asian.

Can I ask where you heard this? I spoke to a dev one time on Discord who said they were aware that RRGs unintentionally became the dominant meta and were considering their options with that.

Which means to me that they have somewhat steady/stable income as it is now and they're scared of changing things too much and potentially getting it wrong, which is understandable. Any significant changes are a gamble at the end of the day, especially if it upsets your best and most loyal players who lead the community both in and outside of the game.

Sadly i was not able to catch all the messages that have been written so far but ill read them back later.

For now i'd like to give you some more flesh to the bone how the changes we planed would look like numbers wise.

I also added some changes for the production time already including some of your feedback (making the lvl 1 still need Secretlab 4)

Railroad Gun lvl1

- DOA: 4 (3 for axis)

- Secret Lab: 4 → 4

- Speed: 25 → 18

- HP: 40 → 30

- DMG:

-- unarmored: 6.5 → 4

-- light armor: 7.5 → 5

-- heavy armor: 9 → 6

-- Air: 2.5 → 1.5

-- Naval: 5.5 → 4

-- Sub: 2 → 1.5

-- Building: 10 → 6.5

-- Morale: 3 → 2

-- (defensive all values divided by 4)

- Costs: (Base costs not including Doctrine changes)

-- Metal: 2540 → 2300

-- Oil: 2040 → 1840

-- Rare Materials: 2040 → 1840

-- Manpower: 2280 → 2130

-- Money: 3560 → 3220

- Production time:

-- max: 80 → 72

-- min: 10 → 9 (Secret Lab 4)

Railroad Gun lvl 2

- DOA: 14 (12 for axis)

- Secret Lab: 4 → 5

- Speed: 25 → 28

- HP: 40 → 50

- DMG:

-- unarmored: 6.5 → 7

-- light armor: 7.5 → 8.5

-- heavy armor: 9 → 10

-- Air: 2.5 → 2.5

-- Naval: 5.5 → 6

-- Sub: 2 → 2.5

-- Building: 10 → 11

-- Morale: 3 → 3.5

-- (defensive all values divided by 4)

- Costs: (Base costs not including Doctrine changes)

-- Metal: 2540 → 3510

-- Oil: 2040 → 2800

-- Rare Materials: 2040 → 2800

-- Manpower: 2280 → 2880

-- Money: 3560 → 4910

- Production time:

-- max: 80 → 212

-- min: 10 → 13.25 (Secret Lab 5)

Basically L1 gets nerfed which is a good thing (even though it comes earlier, it still takes a heck of a lot of res to actually get it working so early) and a day-14 second level can't really unhinge things, there's so much good stuff around by then... so Carking sounds like you get your way!

jubjub bird wrote:

Not sure why BM is the measuring stick here.

Taking "Playing ideally" to mean some sort of GTO/unexploitable strategy it has to be Axis. Huge buffs to two hugely important units + overall strength.

K.Rokossovski wrote:

jubjub bird wrote:

Not sure why BM is the measuring stick here.

Taking "Playing ideally" to mean some sort of GTO/unexploitable strategy it has to be Axis. Huge buffs to two hugely important units + overall strength.

OOOO! Such an interesting guessing game... which is that second one? Rocket fighters to dominate the sky? Subs to contest anyone ruling the waves? MT for those intense melee battles, or mot.inf for the breathtaking rushes? CURIOUS!!

6thDragon wrote:

Don’t forget humble AA to protect your RRGs.

I'm a tank guy, using air support and NAVY to destroy enemies. Try it, and it is very effective! Don't believe me? Play Egypt in a Europe map, and you'll win.2

AND NO, I am NOT A RECRUIT. I have already won two games and am a much higher level, but it is not updating for some reason.