Controlled Airspace

CityOfAngels wrote:

KingCongo wrote:

And to test this is easy peesy and not expensive at all; as you come across small AI Bots stacks in your games just assign a single-type air unit stack to patrol over them; record your current HP/Morale of both stacks, then go get something to eat or watch a movie.

Clearly. I've left fighters circling over a tank and come back hours later with both still at 100%. But it could have been simple luck/crappy shooting. It's not hard to test, I just haven't made it a priority. (I don't want to forget and lose my fighter - I'm protective of my ratios)

Just to check; you are AT WAR with the units that you are patrolling over, right?

King Draza Mihajlovic wrote:

CityOfAngels wrote:

King Draza Mihajlovic wrote:

"a smoking break can cost you" you do realize that you can play while smoking?

Not while micro-managing air combat against a competitive opponent, that's for sure

as if you need some supernatural skills in order to micromanage planes that take up to 30 minutes to get into action

It does not happen often, but I have been in several air wars where literally every minute was vital, either because I needed to know when enemy aircraft were inbound, or if I could out maneuver a stack on patrol, or if my counter-strike would hit the targets while refueling, or any number of other reasons, including rocket strikes, light tank blitzes, and good ole gold-users insta-building forts and airbases out of thin air.

In those intense moments, which last anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 or 5 hours (depending on the situation and how active your opponent is), you really are stuck to your PC.

But the reward of catching 20+ TAC refueling and wiping them out with a perfectly timed strike by 7 of your own TAC, or slipping a FTR squadron stack at an angle to get behind an enemy patrol and wreck returning bombers is priceless.

Planes on patrol act every 15 minutes. To be competitive when engaged in an air superiority battle you often need to re-locate your plane's patrol bubble constantly so that they never reach their 15-minute "tick". (You also need to break large groups of planes up into many smaller groups with 5 of each plane type or less.) When your patrolling group attacks it's bad, because defending bombers in the competing groups have a big statistical advantage (plus you'll get attacked by any AA units in your bubble, which may be very bad for you - Especially if your opponent sneaks a couple of cruisers under your bubble!

There are more reasons why always being on the defense is a big competitive advantage, but you can find that all in other threads.

The other way more active players rape their "smoke break" opponents is by destroying enemy planes that are refueling. When you fly out on an attack sortie and return, or if you are forced to land to change where you are patrolling, an opponent who times it perfectly can strike your airfield in the 15 minutes or so while the planes are defenseless. If timed perfectly they can even get a tick and then a full attack. While planes on the ground and ready get to scramble and defend at full strength, when they are refueling they defend like convoy trucks - That is, they have 5hp and little or no strength. You can lose 5 bombers or fighters in a blink. (If the opponent has missiles in range, you'll get hit by those too.)

Competitive air superiority battles are a lot more intense than casual players can ever imagine... And they cause horrible sleep deprivation!

CityOfAngels wrote:

The other way more active players rape their "smoke break" opponents is by destroying enemy planes that are refueling. When you fly out on an attack sortie and return, or if you are forced to land to change where you are patrolling,

Planes only refuel when returning from a direct strike mission or when changing air bases.

thats exactly what dude just said

Dixie wrote:

thats exactly what dude just said

There are two ways that could be interpreted as planes on patrol, if given an order to patrol outside the green 'pie slice' or 'cone' that is displayed when issuing new patrol orders, will always return to base and then land briefly before taking off towards the new target.

So, was he saying what I said, that planes on patrol never have to refuel, or was he saying that if you change the target of a patrol such that the new target is outside the green 'pie slice' then it will be forced to land to change where you are patrolling.

Either way, I think the way I said it is much more clear; planes on patrol never require refueling, only planes returning from direct strike missions and planes relocating to a new air base require refueling.

So, what exactly does spinach souffle have to do with anything?

analagous to the "green pie wedge" shown when rerouting aircraft, montana.

Ah. Still looks like spinach souffle to me.

Perhaps a screen shot would help.

[/img]

MontanaBB wrote:

Perhaps a screen shot would help

https://prnt.sc/fvwf5x

When a plane is on patrol there is a pie shaped area in which they can maneuver without landing to refuel and re-orient.

Select the plane(s) and select the patrol button again. You will see the green pie shaped zone within which you may select the new patrol zone and it will move there directly, rather than land and take off again.

If there is an airbase within the green zone other than your origin base you can march the plane there from it's patrol position without returning to origin to refuel.

[/img]

I know.

I was being funny.

MontanaBB wrote:

I was being funny.

Of course there is the off chance that my screenshot and lesson will be read and absorbed by one new player some day in the future and give them an "ah ha" moment.

VorlonFCW wrote:

Of course there is the off chance that my screenshot and lesson will be read and absorbed by one new player some day in the future and give them an "ah ha" moment.

Unfortunately, you can lead them to water, but you cannot make them drink. (Or eat their spinach souffle.)

btw the issue that war already starts with the start of the patrol should be fixed with the update tomorrow, then it should only start at the end of the patrol timer.

freezy wrote:

btw the issue that war already starts with the start of the patrol should be fixed with the update tomorrow, then it should only start at the end of the patrol timer.

I have avoided commenting in this thread ---- which has descended into overwrought name-calling and silly statements about the "unfairness" of aerial reconnaissance ---- while I was waiting for your promised update.

If tomorrow's update does, in fact, tie the automatic state of war to the END of the 15-minute patrol timer, then that is a reasonable compromise. That will preserve the ability of knowledgeable players to conduct aerial reconnaissance of all neighboring countries (both human and AI players), but it will place the burden on the player performing recon to move their patrolling aircraft units more frequently than every 15 minutes to avoid damaging buildings on the ground and initiating an automatic state of war. If so, then no-one can complain about "endless" patrols over neutral territory, or the possible damage they cause.

Anyone who understands the importance of aerial reconnaissance and the real-time intelligence it provides, but is unsure how to do it properly, please ping me on my user talk page. I would be happy to hold a discussion of various aerial reconnaissance tactics in a private conversation, and invite all who are interested.

As for those folks who believe aerial reconnaissance is unfair, unrealistic, illegal, immoral, fattening, or just plain "cheating" . . . well, I wish you good luck.

Updated news announcement here:

> > > > Information is the key to victory.

Another nation was patrolling over Italian province, which I was attacking. His patrol went over my troops and triggered automatic war with me. My anit-air shot him down. i periodically check to see who i'm at war with and lo and behold I had declared war. Looking in the WH, I found I had shot down his tac.

Lawrence Czl wrote:

His patrol went over my troops and triggered automatic war with me

I noticed an analogous behavior when I artillery shelled an enemy that was fighting a country I had RoW with. The shelling caused war with the RoW country. I was under the impression that this didn't happen in the past, but perhaps it's always been like that if they are actually in battle. Anyway, this is probably unrelated to the patrol issue.

It depends on wether you're shelling the countryside or the "dot". If you're just shelling their countryside, well, I guess they feel it's ok that a few farmeras die. If you're shelling the dot though, also attacking buildings, it's another matter and they will declare on you.