For more variety on the battlefield!

21 Apr 2017, 17:16

Dear Generals,

To be victorious in the future we need to look back at the past. Our analysts finished their report and revealed which of our units are used the most or least. Based on those findings we want to introduce a huge amount of balancing changes, which will be released on beta today. This update will allow you to counter certain strategies better and will allow you to use a greater variety of units in your future battles.

There will be a 3 week test phase, where we will collect all sorts of feedback and eventually make further changes. That means: The final balancing update can differ from the current state.

Following changes will be made:

Strategic Bomber

- Increased flight range:

Lv1: 375->400 | Lv2: 400->460 | Lv3: 480->550 | Lv4: 550->670 | Lv5: 600->820 | Lv6: 690->1000 | Lv7: 780->1210

- Increased building damage:

Lv1: 3.5->4 | Lv2: 5->6 | Lv3: 6.5->8 | Lv4: 8->10 | Lv5: 9.5->12 | Lv6: 12->14 | Lv7: 14.5->16

- lowered build requirement on all levels from Industry Complex level 2 to Industry Complex level 1

Naval Bomber

- Increased naval damage

Lv1: 5->8 | Lv2: 6->10 | Lv3: 7.5->12 | Lv4: 9.5->14 | Lv5: 10.5->16 | Lv6: 13->18 | Lv7: 15.5->20

- Increased flight range only on Lv1: 200->230

Light Tanks

- Increased metal cost on all levels: 1500->1750

- Increased oil cost on all levels: 600->750

Medium Tank

- Increased armored offensive & defensive damage

Lv1: 4->4.5 | Lv2: 5->5.5 | Lv3: 6->6.5 | Lv4: 7->7.5 | Lv5: 8->8.5 | Lv6: 9->9.5

Heavy Tank

- Increased armored offensive damage

Lv1: 7.5->8 | Lv2: 8.5->10 | Lv3: 10.5->12 | Lv4: 12.5->14

- Increased armored defensive damage

Lv1: 9.38->10 | Lv2: 10.63->12.5 | Lv3: 13.13->15 | Lv4: 15.63->17.5

Tank Destroyer

- Increased armored offensive damage

Lv1: 3->4 | Lv2: 4->5 | Lv3: 5->6.5 | Lv4: 6.5->8 | Lv5: 8->9.5 | Lv6: 9.5->11

- Increased armored defensive damage

Lv1: 5.25->7 | Lv2: 7->8.75 | Lv3: 8.75->11.38 | Lv4: 11.38->14 | Lv5: 14.0->16.63 | Lv6: 16.63->19.25

Artillery

- Increased naval offensive damage

Lv1: 0.25->0.7 | Lv2: 0.25->0.8 | Lv3: 0.25->0.9 | Lv4: 0.25->1 | Lv5: 0.25->1.1 | Lv6: 0.3->1.2

- Increased naval defensive damage

Lv1: 0.13->0.35 | Lv2: 0.13->0.4 | Lv3: 0.13->0.45 | Lv4: 0.13->0.5 | Lv5: 0.13->0.55 | Lv6: 0.15->0.6

- Increased range on Lv6: 70->80

SP Artillery

- Increased unarmored offensive damage

Lv1: 2->2.5 | Lv2: 2.5->3 | Lv3: 3->3.5 | Lv4: 3.5->4

- Increased unarmored defensive damage

Lv1: 1.25->1.56 | Lv2: 1.56-1.88 | Lv3: 1.88->2.19 | Lv4: 2.19->2.5

- Increased armored offensive damage

Lv1: 2->2.5 | Lv2: 2.5->3 | Lv3: 3->3.5 | Lv4: 3.5->4

- Increased armored defensive damage

Lv1: 1.25->1.56 | Lv2: 1.56-1.88 | Lv3: 1.88->2.19 | Lv4: 2.19->2.5

- Increased naval offensive damage

Lv1: 0.3->0.8 | Lv2: 0.3->1 | Lv3: 0.3->1.2 | Lv4: 0.3->1.4

- Increased naval defensive damage

Lv1: 0.19->0.5 | Lv2: 0.19->0.63 | Lv3: 0.19->0.75 | Lv4: 0.19->0.88

- Increased range

Lv4: 70->80

Anti Air

- Increased air offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 4->5 | Lv2: 5->6 | Lv3: 6->7 | Lv4: 7->8.5 | Lv5: 8->10 | Lv6: 9->12

SP Anti Air

- Increased air offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 5->6 | Lv2: 6->7.5 | Lv3: 7->9 | Lv4: 8->11 | Lv5: 9->13

Infantry

- Increased goods cost on all levels: 500->750

Militia

- Increased unarmored offensive damage

Lv6: 3.5->4 | Lv7: 4->5

- Increased unarmored defensive damage

Lv6: 5.25->6 | Lv7: 6->7.5

- Increased armored offensive damage

Lv4: 0.5->0.75 | Lv6: 1->1.25 | Lv7: 1.5->1.75

- Increased armored defensive damage

Lv4: 0.75->1.13 | Lv6: 1.5->1.88 | Lv7: 2.25->2.63

- Decreased build time on all levels by 25%

Motorized Infantry

- Increased move speed

Lv1: +12% | Lv2: +11% | Lv3: +11% | Lv4: +9% | Lv5: +8% | Lv6: +7%

- lowered day of availability by 4 days on all levels

Mechanized Infantry

- Increased unarmored offensive damage

Lv2: 7.5->8 | Lv4: 8.5->8.75

- Increased unarmored defensive damage

Lv1: 9->11.25 | Lv2: 9->12 | | Lv3: 10.2->12.75 | Lv4: 10.2->13.13 | Lv5: 10.8->13.5 | Lv6: 11.4->14.25

- Increased armored defensive damage

Lv1: 4.2->5.25 | Lv2: 4.56->5.7 | Lv3: 4.8->6 | Lv4: 5.16->6.45 | Lv5: 5.4->6.75 | Lv6: 5.7->7.13

- Increased air defensive damage on all levels: 2.4->3

- lowered day of availability by 4 days on all levels

Cruisers

- Increased unarmored offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 0.5->1 | Lv2: 0.5->1.5 | Lv3: 0.75->2 | Lv4: 0.75->2.5 | Lv5: 1->3 | Lv6: 1->3.5 | Lv7: 1.25->4

- Increased armored offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 0.5->1 | Lv2: 0.5->1.5 | Lv3: 0.75->2 | Lv4: 0.75->2.5 | Lv5: 1->3 | Lv6: 1->3.5 | Lv7: 1.25->4

- Increased air offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 6->6.5 | Lv2: 7->8 | Lv3: 8.5->9.5 | Lv4: 10->11 | Lv5: 11.5->12.5 | Lv6: 13->14 | Lv7: 14.5->15.5

- Increased move speed

Lv1: +20% | Lv2: +8% | Lv3: +8% | Lv4: +7% | Lv5: +7% | Lv6: +6% | Lv7: +6%

- Increased range

Lv2: 30->40 | Lv3: 30->40 | Lv6: 50->60 | Lv7: 50->70

Battleships

- Increased unarmored offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 1.5->3 | Lv2: 2->4 | Lv3: 2.5->5 | Lv4: 3->6 | Lv5: 3.5->7 | Lv6: 4->8 | Lv7: 4.5->9

- Increased armored offensive and defensive damage

Lv1: 1->2 | Lv2: 1.5->3 | Lv3: 2->4 | Lv4: 2.5->5 | Lv5: 3->6 | Lv6: 3.5->7 | Lv7: 4->8

- Increased range

Lv1: 50->60 | Lv2: 50->60 | Lv3: 50->60 | Lv7: 70->80

Rocket Fighter

- Increased flight range: 150->275

- Increased air offensive damage: 15->23

- Increased air defensive damage: 9.38->11.5

- Decreased unarmored defensive damage: 0.63->0.5

- Decreased armored defensive damage: 0.31->0.25

- Lowered metal cost: 500->250

- Increased rare material cost: 0->250

Nuclear Battleship:

- Increased range: 70->80

- Increased unarmored offensive and defensive damage: 7->12

- Increased armored offensive and defensive damage: 6->10

- Increased air offensive and defensive damage: 4->6

Nuclear Submarine:

- Increased air offensive and defensive damage: 4->5

- Increased naval offensive and defensive damage: 10.5->11

- Increased sub offensive and defensive damage: 3->4

Railroad Gun:

- Increased range: 120->150

- Increased naval offensive damage: 0.3->2

- Increased naval defensive damage: 0.04->0.3

- Increased move speed: +33%

Commandos:

- Increased unarmored offensive: 5.5->10

- Increased unarmored defensive damage: 5.5->8

- Increased armored offensive damage: 3->5

- Increased armored defensive damage: 3->4

- Increased air offensive damage: 1->1.5

- Increased air defensive damage: 1->1.2

For this purpose we will open speed rounds on the English beta server, so if you want to participate please join those rounds and feel free to give us feedback in the newspaper or in the chat! Also evaluate, why you don’t like a specific change. An additional beta survey will be added one week into the test phase.

We are looking forward to your feedback,

You Call of War Team

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121 Replies

2 May 2017, 10:01

Restrisiko wrote:
Perhaps, in the course of the reform of the units, they could at last correct the classification of the nuclear submarines and change it from ship to submarine.

Thanks, this will be fixed as well.

miech wrote:
Since we are changing the game anyway, may I dare raise the tac bomber issue? Its funny that its basically the only untouched unit, yet has the most complaints in the forum (not only by me ) Since its basically the unit that does the most damage by far (in terms of raw total damage vs damage recieved). Yes AA is raised in defense, but my first guess is that it still may not be enough. If the stats will not be changed, perhaps SBDE is a nice alternative?

Not sure if this is really needed after we already increased anti air damage of anti air units and some ships, as well as buffed the rocket interceptor and the strat bomber (which can be used to destroy the airports the tacs are starting from).

2 May 2017, 12:42

freezy wrote:
Not sure if this is really needed after we already increased anti air damage of anti air units and some ships, as well as buffed the rocket interceptor and the strat bomber (which can be used to destroy the airports the tacs are starting from).

The biggest problem with the in-game tactical bomber unit is most players seem to be completely clueless as to how they should employ current-level interceptor squadrons to inflict unsustainable levels of damage on tactical bomber squadrons. Of course, there is also the problem of the so-called "gold bomber," where some of our friends re-charge the combat effectiveness of their tactical bomber wings after every attack, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion . . . .

The "buff" for the rocket fighter is a ridiculous over-compensation for the complained-of "over-powered" capabilities of the tactical bomber unit. In reality, the ME 163 rocket fighter was pretty much a failure as an interceptor, and it was nearly as dangerous to its own pilot as it was to enemy bombers. The best powered flight duration was 7.5 minutes, with a maximum range of about 40 km (~25 miles). In comparison, you have now "buffed" the in-game version whereby it has a range of 250 km (more than 6x reality), and given it super hero anti-aircraft capabilities. In reality, over 300 ME 163s were built, and they were responsible for shooting down fewer than 20 enemy bombers.

I really wish Bytro would stick to something resembling reality when designing in-game units. I have few doubts that the in-game rocket fighter, if left at this level of strengths, is going to create a whole host of unanticipated "imbalances" -- the usual result when we depart so far from reality.

2 May 2017, 13:00

Just delete the rocket fighter. It Was next to useless. Germany's best test pilot nearly lost his life in one. I think the buff was just an attempt o make a useless unit viable in the game. I built some in one game one time. I will never build them again

“I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, god would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”
―
Genghis Khan

2 May 2017, 17:54

May I join the beta testing of these changes plz? Would greatly appreciate it - deeply interested in these tweaks along with (especially) the speed map. I couldn't get a hold of any of these maps yet but I'm diehard on it haha.

3 May 2017, 10:41

MontanaBB wrote:
I really wish Bytro would stick to something resembling reality when designing in-game units. I have few doubts that the in-game rocket fighter, if left at this level of strengths, is going to create a whole host of unanticipated "imbalances" -- the usual result when we depart so far from reality.

Maybe for our next games

Doing this for one unit only would not work and changing all units to their realistic historic values would make a whole new game out of this, which we don't want to do.

So we will go with the current changes and see how it goes, if necessary rebalance more at a later point.

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention: We also added upkeep costs for rockets, atomic bomber and atomic rocket, which were missing.

3 May 2017, 10:59

Can we please get an announcement on the status of the Beta map? The server went down ~ Friday iirc, and the map has been frozen since. It actually got majorly bugged, time traveling all the way to day 35. Nobody has given an official explanation about it, many of the players are getting restless

Much appreciated.

3 May 2017, 11:42

Sadly we had to close the beta speed map since it was also affected by the freezing bug. Sorry

If you wanna know more about the future of speed maps you can give more feedback here and also find more information:

Speedrounds? WE WANT MORE! but not right now

3 May 2017, 11:50

freezy wrote:
Oh and one thing I forgot to mention: We also added upkeep costs for rockets, atomic bomber and atomic rocket, which were missing.

@freezy: Can you post these new upkeep values for rockets, atomic bombers and atomic rockets?

Thanks.

3 May 2017, 14:17

rocket: 150 oil

atomic rocket: 200 oil

atomic bomber: 100 grain, 200 oil

3 May 2017, 14:36

Is there a timeline for when any of these updates will go live on the regular, non-pioneer games? I know that's a bit much to ask, just curious, or even an educated guess on how long it would be before any other changes are implemented would be appreciated

Obviously many kinks still need to be worked out, but with the exception of a handful of units, I thought the new balance changes were a vast improvement over how they currently operate.

3 May 2017, 14:56

Most likely next tuesday.

3 May 2017, 17:41

freezy wrote:
Most likely next tuesday.

How will that happen?

Will existing games continue to use the old values or will all games start using the new values?

(thinking about building units that will gain value post change over)

3 May 2017, 18:41

freezy wrote:
rocket: 150 oil
atomic rocket: 200 oil
atomic bomber: 100 grain, 200 oil

@freezy: Am I understanding this correctly -- these values represent the daily upkeep for these units?

3 May 2017, 18:56

MontanaBB wrote:
freezy wrote:
rocket: 150 oil
atomic rocket: 200 oil
atomic bomber: 100 grain, 200 oil
@freezy: Am I understanding this correctly -- these values represent the daily upkeep for these units?

Probably, yes

This player may have been reactivated in October 27th 2017

4 May 2017, 08:31

F. Marion wrote:
freezy wrote:
Most likely next tuesday.
How will that happen?
Will existing games continue to use the old values or will all games start using the new values?
(thinking about building units that will gain value post change over)

All games will use the new values

MontanaBB wrote:
freezy wrote:
rocket: 150 oil
atomic rocket: 200 oil
atomic bomber: 100 grain, 200 oil
@freezy: Am I understanding this correctly -- these values represent the daily upkeep for these units?

yes, comparable to all the other units. Though we lowered the upkeep for normal rockets to 100 now after some feedback.

And keep in mind that it is an abstraction for all units, there is also service personel, additional equipment etc. that is not shown on the map, the upkeep costs simulate that. Also it should be another slight debuff for rockets in case the build requirements were not enough for you guys

4 May 2017, 08:49

freezy wrote:
Also it should be another slight debuff for rockets in case the build requirements were not enough for you guys

Well, I suppose you can justify the daily oil upkeep for the rockets as part of their mobile launcher transporter requirements . . . . The oil upkeep for the atomic bomber unit is comparable to other aircraft squadrons, but sounds a bit high for a single four-engine heavy bomber. That said, this should prevent some of our friends from spamming and stockpiling ridiculous numbers of rockets, etc. There was a recent thread where the OP said that he had 7,000+ L4 rockets in a single game; I thought he was kidding. Then he showed the screenshot. Insane. I started doing the calculations of how many L5 industrial complex production hours were required, and quickly realized the bigger issue was the rare materials requirement to produce 7,229 rockets (500 tons x 7,229 = 3,614,500) . . . . The daily oil upkeep should help curtail that kind of spam-insanity.

BTW, the simpler, more straightforward way to "debuff" rockets would be to simply reduce their effectiveness against combat units, and leave them as primarily an anti-buildings weapon, right? Consistent with the historical reality, right?

4 May 2017, 09:32

Oil for rocket maintenance? Ouch, that hurt. It was one of the last high-tech units that didn't need oil... so even more AT guns for many people on the 100p map I guess.

When the enemy is driven back, we have failed. When he is cut off, encircled and dispersed, we have succeeded.
- Alexander Suvorov.

5 May 2017, 23:41

DxC wrote:
Restrisiko wrote:
...correct the classification of the nuclear submarines..
I wouldn't be surprised if the client is just showing the wrong icon, while they are actually treated as subs in a battle, but it's a good question. Anyone notice nuk subs being weak against BB/CL?

Unfortunately it's not just a wrong icon.

Yesterday I've made screens of battles between submarines and battleships.

Click if you want to see the results...

[spoiler=...regular subs vs. battleships]

5/4/2017 // TEST AREA PACIFIC MAP 1577169 // DAY 279 // SOUTHERN BISMARCK SEA // WIND 0 // SWELL 0 // CLEAR SKY AND ABSOLUTE SIGHT Forum attachment [/spoiler]

[spoiler=...nuclear subs vs. battleships]

5/4/2017 // TEST AREA PACIFIC MAP 1577169 // DAY 279 // CORAL SEA 25 SEA MILES SOUTH OF PORT MORESBY // WIND 0 // SWELL 0 // CLEAR SKY AND ABSOLUTE SIGHT Forum attachment [/spoiler]

freezy wrote:
Thanks, this will be fixed as well.

Hopefully not just the icon...

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6 May 2017, 07:25

Thanks for chasing this down, documenting it and bringing it back here.

These are the bugs that will slip past the arcade players.

I did wonder why my diesel boats just chewed up nuke boats. Hopefully this will fix it.

Of course, they still have absolutely unrealistic AA values. Show me one class of nuclear submarines with AA capability. The point of the nuke plant is to not _have_ to be on the surface charging batteries and vulnerable to patrol aircraft and HK groups.

7 May 2017, 14:51 (edited)

Restrisiko wrote:
Unfortunately it's not just a wrong icon.

Nice work bud.

edit: I just checked the battle calc and the results are similar to yours.

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