Crimea- Russian or Ukrainian

Voted.

see, I was really with the Ukrainings but

I look at so many places like Ireland, and the states and that we had rebelled but we were under harsh occupation

dont think crimea is under same harsh occupation besides from the russians

I dunno, not voted yet

prob leading towards the rebel, but then again...

somebody convince me

I see your trying to kick off a debate again dave. Trying to beat my UK vs US thread by any chance?

UK and US on same side here do

well I think I get what ya mean haha

I planned to do this anyway, it's part of the disputed territory series.

Crimea is Ukranian. Actually, in 1996, Russia and Ukraine signed the Budapest Pact. Ukraine gave up all of its nukes on condition its borders were respected. One more example of Putin's imperialism.

people argue Crimea was Russia before Khrushchev gave it to the Ukrainians.

Yeah, but still not an excuse to start a civil war and break a treaty.

Russia didn't start the civil war, the current Ukrainian government did.

The current Ukrainian government is the one that's bringing Ukraine closer and closer to the EU and further away from the Soviet Union Russia.

That's not the point, don't change the subject.

I am not changing the subject. I am merely indicating that only a bad government would've started a civil war, and the current goverment is getting Ukraine into the EU, which is good for them.

Well, what you said was half-true. When the corrupt, election-rigging, pro-Russia president was overthrown and the current government achieved power, the separatists rebelled. Not directly the current government's fault. By getting into power they divided Ukraine.

It's interesting really, the Ukrainian government has goaded the Russians and egged on NATO if what i've read is true, a petty government to be honest.

Julia Timoshenko seems a fairly competent leader to me. I'm not sure if she's the president, though, but she's the leader of the pro-Europe movement.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151123/1030592202/ukraine-bans-cargo-traffic-crimea.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/world/europe/russia-and-ukraine-in-a-standoff-over-crimea-power-outage.html?_r=0

https://www.rt.com/business/323418-ukraine-russia-transit-flights/

Low blow after low blow. Very competent.

I think Im a little with Pabs here,

one of those topics Im kinda diveded on

I think they have all the right to do what they've done. Those lands are Ukrainian, and making the Russians' lives difficult is not bad.

and I dont think its the same case as in areas where there was need to rebel

anywayy

I don't personally like the annexation, as Pablo said above, the Budapest Act should be respected. It really reminds me of annexation of the Sudeten, taking land under the pretext of the people there for a heavy strategic gain, now we just wait on another Anschluss and start getting our bomb shelters ready

aDudeWhoDoesThings wrote:

It really reminds me of annexation of the Sudeten

Anyway, I believe it is Russian, although I am against the fact that it is Russian– if the people want to become Russian, let them become Russian.