M4a3e8(76)w vs Panzer V vs T34

Pablo22510 wrote:

And my belief is that Germany could have won the war if it wasn't for Hitler.

Quality may top quantity, but quantity is a quality in it's own right.

Quasi-duck wrote:

You're still wrong.

Quality may top quantity, but quantity is a quality in it's own right.

Pablo22510 wrote:

as the further east the German army would have travelled from Moscow, the less people for the USSR.

Quasi-duck wrote:

That doesn't matter. The Germans could not get that far. If they somehow managed to, their own supply lines would kill them.

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans had some pretty good trains.

Pablo22510 wrote:

And supply lines can be successfully established, you know?

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans would have gotten that far if it wasn't for Hitler.

Quasi-duck wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans had some pretty good trains.

That doesn't matter. German trains could not run on Soviet tracks, so they had to lay down new tracks wherever they went.

Pablo22510 wrote:

And supply lines can be successfully established, you know?

They were stretched to their limits at Moscow, the lines only got longer and wider from then on.

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans would have gotten that far if it wasn't for Hitler.

There is zero proof of this.

1. So what? Lay them down!
2. The capture of a big city allows a supply line to stretch longer.
3. Hitler took overall command of the German Wehrmacht in December '41. All downhill in Russia from then on.

Pablo22510 wrote:

So what? Lay them down!

Pablo22510 wrote:

The capture of a big city allows a supply line to stretch longer.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Hitler took overall command of the German Wehrmacht in December '41. All downhill in Russia from then on.

Quasi-duck wrote:

That costs money, steel, and labour. Germany lacked all of those.

Quasi-duck wrote:

Hitler wanted to turn Moscow into a lake.

Quasi-duck wrote:

The invasion had barely started.......

Pablo22510 wrote:

Money - no. Steel - yes, but can get from the Russkie lines. Labour - no.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Which proves my point that Hitler was a nutter and that Germany lost the war because of him.

Pablo22510 wrote:

from December '41 'til May '45, the only thing the German army did was retreat from Moscow.

Quasi-duck wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

Money - no. Steel - yes, but can get from the Russkie lines. Labour - no.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Which proves mythhey point that Hitler was a nutter and that Germany lost the war because of him.

Not really, just that the generals were dumb enough to do what a moron would tell them.

Pablo22510 wrote:

from December '41 'til May '45, the only thing the German army did was retreat from Moscow.

Ehm, no? That is blatantly false.

1. Not short of money. Short of steel, but could get it by melting Sov rails.
2. Very few people have said 'no' to Hitler, and most of them had sticky ends. E.g. Rommel.
3. From Dec. '41 onwards, the Wehrmacht retreated from Moscow. They advanced elsewhere, but they retreated from Moscow.

Quasi-duck wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

And my belief is that Germany could have won the war if it wasn't for Hitler.

You're still wrong.

Quality may top quantity, but quantity is a quality in it's own right.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Not short of money. Short of steel, but could get it by melting Sov rails.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Very few people have said 'no' to Hitler, and most of them had sticky ends. E.g. Rommel.

Pablo22510 wrote:

From Dec. '41 onwards, the Wehrmacht retreated from Moscow. They advanced elsewhere, but they retreated from Moscow.

GreatbigHippo wrote:

The only way quantity tops quality is by throwing so much fodder into the enemy that they run out of ammunition.

MihailMD wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Then explain how the Germans were winning the war in 41?

Unexpected attack and most of Soviet air forces destroyed on the ground.

Combined with superior armor, better troops and Generals. With the best moral as well!

is that why they lost?? What a shame in such case ))))

Germans could have taken Russia no bother. But yea.. Hitler.. that idiot

as well as the soviet allies, to the west..

Soviets have 2 things to thank, for surviving that war..

1. United States of America, and her allies
2. Adolf Hitler

oceanhawk wrote:

United States of America, and her allies

oceanhawk wrote:

Adolf Hitler

oceanhawk wrote:

Soviets have 2 things to thank, for surviving that war..

1. United States of America, and her allies
2. Adolf Hitler

And number two is just stupid. If there wasn't for Hitler, there would be no war. Making excuses for German defeat by blaming what Germany was makes no sense. And Germany was Hitler.

Paramunac wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Soviets have 2 things to thank, for surviving that war..

1. United States of America, and her allies
2. Adolf Hitler

America has to thank Soviet Union for defeating Hitler, unless they wanted to fight war in streets of New York and Washington, because fighting to defend your country is much different than sending soldiers to other parts of world. Americans were spared of fighting war on their territory, destruction of their country by nazism and horrors caused by it. It is something that makes men fight with all their strength. Soviets probably didn't have as advanced army as Germans in some aspects, but their cause to fight was much more just than German, and while Stalin was probably terrible for his own people, they didn't fight for him but for their families and countrymen and that is what made the difference.

And number two is just stupid. If there wasn't for Hitler, there would be no war. Making excuses for German defeat by blaming what Germany was makes no sense. And Germany was Hitler.

That is a horrible thing to say. The soviet union, did help the allies. That cannot be denied. But the only reason USSR managed to survive is because of Hitler as well as the allied support.

If Germany had taken, the USSR. I dont know if Germany would have taken america. Id say so

The soviets helped the Americans, but no where near as much as the Americans helped the soviets

Paramunac wrote:

Stalin was probably terrible for his own people, they didn't fight for him but for their families and countrymen and that is what made the difference.

oceanhawk wrote:

The soviets helped the Americans, but no where near as much as the Americans helped the soviets