Mock Presidential Race pt. 2

oceanhawk wrote:

They dont, its a much easier job just to fail all of the drugs...

and here is the other kicker, the FDA charges huge amount of money to get a drug "approved" many companies dont even bother getting the drug marketed and sold in the USA as a result...

Pablo, you are the FDA and quasi is the government

If you "approve a drug" and it turns out to be bad, Quasi is going to give out to you, and slap you

But if you disapprove a drug, and it turns out to be good, there is no slaps...

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

They dont, its a much easier job just to fail all of the drugs...

and here is the other kicker, the FDA charges huge amount of money to get a drug "approved" many companies dont even bother getting the drug marketed and sold in the USA as a result...

Pablo, you are the FDA and quasi is the government

If you "approve a drug" and it turns out to be bad, Quasi is going to give out to you, and slap you

But if you disapprove a drug, and it turns out to be good, there is no slaps...

oceanhawk wrote:

This that moment where u realiaise , liberals and commies had it all wrong?

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

This that moment where u realiaise , liberals and commies had it all wrong?

No, when you realise conservatives have skulls thicker than the armour of a Maus.

Alright, look, you should know after, what, the 5th, or is the 7th, time that generally when you go off in direction, we get in trouble.

The FDA is corrupt, this is true, but that does not mean it needs to be banned. It is necessary for the health and safety of everybody. Most of the problems with the FDA can actually be blamed on capitalism.

GreatbigHippo wrote:

The FDA is corrupt, this is true, but that does not mean it needs to be banned. It is necessary for the health and safety of everybody. Most of the problems with the FDA can actually be blamed on capitalism.

Id like to see the drug part gone, keep the food part. But the FDA bans soo many life saving drugs, that are available in other countries like Australia, the EU, Canada..

Quasi-duck wrote:

Alright, look, you should know after, what, the 5th, or is the 7th, time that generally when you go off in direction, we get in trouble.

Name one country where Socialism worked in full? go on, I answer your questions, you outta answer mine

oceanhawk wrote:

The real question is, how can we make healthcare affordable?

• This is a big one, especially in Hospitals. In healthcare -- which, by law, in the USA is a monopoly -- the difference between a piece of medical equipment that is good enough to do the job vs. a nearly identical piece of equipment that is certified to an even higher standard (yet doesn't actually do the job better) -- that difference -- is that the medical device companies get to mark up their certified equipment easily as much as twenty times what competitive prices would get set as by an open market where "good enough" should be respected and the certifying bodies get out of the way. But there is no open market for medical devices because the certifying bodies have been given legal power to force companies to either produce certified equipment or else not be allowed to have their equipment be used in the practice of medicine. Even veterinarian certification is getting ridiculous and is starting to catch up to the healthcare industry in this.
• This is a huge one, especially among the insurance agencies ... and partially because of the insurance agencies. There is a serious cancer in healthcare (pun intended) where minor medical mistakes are considered actionable for lawsuits and the lawyers and judicial system have created massive torts that make doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, and medical boards deftly afraid of getting sued. Because of this, they get very expensive insurance policies to protect themselves -- especially from "malpractice" suits. The insurance companies fight tooth and nail to avoid paying out anything while the poor victim of an actual malpractice has to go through leaps and bounds to get anything while the bulk of the money goes to fake injury plaintiffs, their lawyers, and the occasional class-action suit that is designed to punish the medical field. Most of those cases are grossly over-prosecuted and have massively-disproportionate compensatory damages.
• Government Regulations and the Bureaucratic Red-tape that begets. This one is the quiet giant of medical costs. While everyone know that you shouldn't have to pay $60 for an aspirin in a hospital or $50 for a band-aid, not many people realize that there are also very large administrative and regulatory costs that medical institutions refuse to absorb and just pass on to the consumer. As with most of the rest of society, wherever the government sticks it's filthy nose, costs shoot up because of regulation. Fully two to three trillion dollars (that's trillion with a 't') is wasted in America because of red-tape. I would imagine its worse in Socialist nations, but what is that to me? All I care about is the USA and let those other nations drag their economies through the mud all they want. That America wastes so much of our economy slogging through the sticky-mud of red-tape is beyond sanity. But, until a REAL conservative takes power in the White House and gets a REAL conservative congress to back him, there will NEVER be any real reform in government.
• Finally, to round out this list, there must be this added to it. And it's a lot bigger problem than one might imagine. Many people who are sick or injured go to medical facilities rated higher than the patient merits. Our nation only has two places that most people go, an Emergency Room and an Urgent Care facility. Some people will also go to "free" clinics or lower cost clinics, but the vast majority of Americans seem to think that a sprain just has to be X-Rayed, a minor cut probably needs stitches, and a little cough is probably the plague. To make things even worse, there are medical advice websites that mis-educate poor saps into thinking they've got malaria when there's the slightest rash. So they hurry to set up an appointment with their doctor or rush down to the most expensive Emergency Room and Trauma Center they can find because, in their mind, "more expensive is better". And the websites aren't just giving out information. They are complicit in pushing people to self-diagnose the most ridiculous and obscure diseases they can find; and the more arcane and rare the disease, the more likely the idiot patient will convince themselves that they are the one in a million person that has that disease. Also, the websites will say silly stuff like this "If you have even the slightest sign of this symptom (or that symptom), you may be having a heart attack and should contact emergency service personnel immediately." and they are actually justifiably worried that if they don't say such nonsense, someone who actually has a problem and doesn't take care of themselves by calling an ambulance but actually viewed the website might just sue them (wrongfully, but that's a part of why we need tort reform)

So, the short version is that there are four problems: certified medical device and supplies over-pricing, gross lawsuit abuse, ridiculous government regulations, and self-diagnosing idiots.

oceanhawk wrote:

GreatbigHippo wrote:

The FDA is corrupt, this is true, but that does not mean it needs to be banned. It is necessary for the health and safety of everybody. Most of the problems with the FDA can actually be blamed on capitalism.

Haha, yea it isnt just corrupt, it is inefficient, I cant deny that I would love the FDA had it worked properly, but like most government agencies it ends up inefficient, and counter productive.

Id like to see the drug part gone, keep the food part. But the FDA bans soo many life saving drugs, that are available in other countries like Australia, the EU, Canada..

The FDA is actually doing a good job of ensuring the nation's health. But they do drag their heels and they suffer from two of the problems listed above in my other response: those being the certifying bodies "strict" regulations and that of governmental regulation. If the FDA were to ease up on those two factors, I think that a lot of other drugs would be made available and for less costs.

By the way, drug manufacturers sometimes uses the FDA and research costs as an excuse to markup their medicines by incredible amounts. There are cases where a drug would cost pennies to produce but are sold for hundreds if not thousands of dollars just because the owner decides they can and they have a patent. Fortunately, all medical patents have a fairly short life. But because the drugs produced under patent are -- in themselves -- a monopoly, there should be cost reductions. And to make this a more insidious problem, many pharmaceuticals will offer "free trials" and "affordable distributions" to the impoverished or new patients. But then, they jack up the prices later on after the free trial is over while they hook another user with a complicit doctor that thinks THIS medicine is doing the job. And the impoverished don't keep getting their affordable distribution either.

Once the pharmaceutical has enough dependents relying on their "free" medicine, they then go to the insurance agencies and negotiate a price to be able to cover that medicine. Then, the company stops their freebie program and the poor have to use their insurance to pay for the medicine. But the insurance company won't absorb that new cost, so they just pass it on to everyone else with higher insurance rates. So the pharmaceutical companies make tons of money on drugs that should be far less valuable. And, like the medical equipment companies, they can also shoot up the price even more by saying that they are holding to a higher and certified standard.

oceanhawk wrote:

Name one country where Socialism worked in full?

Literacy rate: 94% in 2012

Unemployment rate: ~2% in 2014

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Name one country where Socialism worked in full?

Vietnam.

Literacy rate: 94% in 2012

Unemployment rate: ~2% in 2014

You can thank the US of A for those scores

try again

In the 90s, they passed a bunch of laws encouraging and promoting private enterprise, free markets and free trade. As a result of these reforms, Vietnam had an annual GDP rate of 8% between 1990 and 1997. That is insane, this is could be a good example of our capitalist ideas working better, I hadnt even really thought about this, thks for the evidence

Their growth rate is still at about 7-8% and now they are one of the worlds fastest growing economys in the world..

Capitalism haha, you really should have actually checked the whole story lol

oceanhawk wrote:

haha wrong again, jeepers

You can thank the US of A for those scores

try again

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

haha wrong again, jeepers

You can thank the US of A for those scores

try again

Mate, have you heard of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?

You actually just gave a great example of capitalism being better than Communism

oceanhawk wrote:

Struggle to see what that has to do with anything..

You actually just gave a great example of capitalism being better than Communism

You're Scotsman is a country succeeding....

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Struggle to see what that has to do with anything..

You actually just gave a great example of capitalism being better than Communism

No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.^[1] When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group).^[2]

You're Scotsman is a country succeeding....

Scroll down to the economy section of the page.. even says it there, their GDP sky rocketed, because of the spread of free enterprise, their leaders even know Communism is failing...

Hell, one of the Vietnam Airlines, recently made a purchase of 100, 737s

Like, they wouldnt have ever had such business successes had they not opened up to freedom, and free market

oceanhawk wrote:

Using Right wing, Capitalist ideals...

Scroll down to the economy section of the page.. even says it there, their GDP sky rocketed, because of the spread of free enterprise, their leaders even know Communism is failing...

Hell, one of the Vietnam Airlines, recently made a purchase of 100, 737s

Like, they wouldnt have ever had such business successes had they not opened up to freedom, and free market

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Using Right wing, Capitalist ideals...

Scroll down to the economy section of the page.. even says it there, their GDP sky rocketed, because of the spread of free enterprise, their leaders even know Communism is failing...

Hell, one of the Vietnam Airlines, recently made a purchase of 100, 737s

Like, they wouldnt have ever had such business successes had they not opened up to freedom, and free market

No True Scotsman.....

you actually named a country, that has done sooo much better since it began to ditch Socialism and Communist..

guess they figured all that marx stuff was a joke,

what taking you so long to figure that out ? haha

Go again, try find another country where Full socialism has worked?

I hear Venezuela is great this time of year

@everyone according to Ocean, to be a communist all you have to do is fail.

Quasi-duck wrote:

@everyone according to Ocean, to be a communist all you have to do is fail.

Communism= Poverty