Ted Cruz

Kehsct wrote:

Can we please NOT involve religion with this political discussion?

I doubt anyone, disapproves of a separation between church and state.

so lets just keep Religion out of it..

Kehsct wrote:

I am honestly wondering where Diabolical gets his 'facts' and if he's sane...

I'm a student of history, not the recently re-vamped history they teach in schools and plaster all over Wikipedia either. No, history was always one of my better subjects back when I was in school. I'm in my forties and I can remember back when history was just starting to get rewritten for political correctness and then they started actively gutting true history for shallow lies.

Fortunately, I graduated high school long enough ago to avoid the real set of lies that my niece has since reported they teach lately. My Bachelor of Science degree was unaffected by the changes in history as I went on to a Christian College where history wasn't rewritten into a series of politically-correct lies to justify the new push for even more liberalism in society to fix the perceived "ills" that our founders "unjustly established out of greed and malice towards others."

Alas, besides being an engineer, I'm something of an academician and writer. Among my many hobbies -- besides strategy games of course [CoW ROCKS!!!] -- are being an avid reader and researcher. Besides apologetics, religion, and logic, I also spend some time researching and writing on the real stories of American history as well as world history.

Every now and then, I also like to read, research, and write on many of the sciences and mathematics. Among my many wide-ranging favorite scientific topics, these include (but are not limited to astrophysics; aerodynamics; aeronautical engineering; engineering physics; atomic, nuclear, and particle physics; architectural and civil engineering; meteorology and geophysics; geology, archaeology, and zooarchaeology; Young Earth Creationism and Antediluvian archaeology; and numerous other interests that fascinate me to no end.

But for all of this, am I sane? Well, let me ask you (colloquially), was Norman Bates insane when he killed all those women? [Sorry, I'm in the middle of watching an episode of Bates Motel right now and that show is uniquely intriguing with compelling drama and writing...a cliffhanger every week.]

But, really, am I sane? You would only know whether or not I'm sane if you took a poll of the many voices in my head as to whether they all agree on that. While some voices are unsure what to say, other voices will shout to the heavens about how crazy I am, while other -- less obnoxious -- voices quietly and with cold determination ask "Crazy? Why he is only diabolical, not crazy." Those countless voices -- each reminiscent of Hannibal Lecter's -- offer clean calculations of reason: "Surely, this notion that he is anything but diabolical is clearly just...your imagination."

I stand vindicated!

oceanhawk wrote:

I doubt anyone, disapproves of a separation between church and state.

so lets just keep Religion out of it..

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Um, actually, I entirely disapprove of the false concept of separation of Church and state. Supreme Court Justice (*gags) Hugo Black incorrectly invented this concept based on a single, sole mention from Thomas Jefferson -- when writing to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 (this if found in the Federalist Papers) -- a Church body which was concerned that the Government might interfere with its sovereign affairs -- mentioned that the First Amendment would serve to protect the Church from state control.

Jefferson never proffered that the reverse would also be true. However, Judge Black invented this reverse-is-true concept to apply the literal word "separation" as to mean a non-interference axiom in both directions. Thus, Black not only saw the very real law which [only] prohibits the federal [and not states] government(s) from interfering with publicly-held Christian practices, but he imagined that the law also prohibited the Christian Church from "interfering" with the [again, only] federal government.

Since none of the founders saw that distinction as being necessary ¹, they didn't have the foresight mention of that distinction in the First Amendment. That was probably their one and only failing when they created the "Republic of these united states". And that is what eventually allowed our republican nation to fall into the concept of a democratic tyranny now known only as the United States [of America].

===================================================================================================

Though this doesn't aspire entirely to my interpretation of the founder's intent (my interpretation is more strict than given here), this excerpt ² is a very good explanation of the "wall of separation between Church and state".

===================================================================================================

Today, the concept that only Christians may serve in public office ¹ may seem draconian, but that was the rightful norm when God established this nation in His wisdom and mercy. But, since Hugo Black's winning judicial vote (5 to 4) back in 1962 ³, which officially removed authority-led prayers from public school, we've slowly removed God from all aspects of the public square and -- eventually -- from all walks of life; save for the remnant of faithful Christians who steadfastly stand up for God and Jesus and continue to proclaim (as do I) that Jesus is the only way to God and that we all need to be saved from the consequence of our sinful nature, which is death.

Because I'm one of those few remaining Christians, I take as many opportunities as I can to say that each person I encounter needs the Lord in their life. I try to remember to say it to everyone at some point and I now say it to all who read this.

Repent of your sins and accept the salvation that Jesus died on the cross for when he died for you. And accept that He arose from the grave, victorious over death itself and that He is the King over creation. He is the champion for your soul and your greatest friend. Let Him enter your heart and allow yourself to be indwelt by His Spirit. The Lord reigns and His patience is coming to an end. When He returns for His Church, count yourself among us so that you can live forever and not be subject to the judgement by God at the end of time.

===================================================================================================

Footnotes & Bibliography:

1.) The founding fathers routinely involved Christianity in the government, even to the extent of holding Church services in the Capital building for many years as well as holding virtual Christian litmus tests as to whether anyone could be eligible to serve in public office. The very notion that anyone who wasn't either a believer in Christ or -- in very rare cases, at least -- a deist who acknowledged the one true God (even if they weren't openly professing a belief in Christ), was someone that the founders didn't think could be trusted at any level of authority and those non-believers would be rightfully shunned from society if they continued to reject their pleas for accepting the salvation that Jesus brings.

2.) Barton, David. "First Amendment: 'Separation of Church and State'?" retrieved from "http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/FirstAmendment/", 13 May, 2016, Web.

3.) Engel v. Vitale. 370 U.S. 421. Supreme Court of the United States. 1962. Wikipedia, retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale", 13 May, 2016. Web.

===================================================================================================

Well, obviously not sane looking at this:

Diabolical wrote:

But, really, am I sane? You would only know whether or not I'm sane if you took a poll of the many voices in my head as to whether they all agree on that. While some voices are unsure what to say, other voices will shout to the heavens about how crazy I am, while other -- less obnoxious -- voices quietly and with cold determination ask "Crazy? Why he is only diabolical, not crazy." Those countless voices -- each reminiscent of Hannibal Lecter's -- offer clean calculations of reason: "Surely, this notion that he is anything but diabolical is clearly just...your imagination."

Diabolical wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

I doubt anyone, disapproves of a separation between church and state.

so lets just keep Religion out of it..

===================================================================================================

Um, actually, I entirely disapprove of the false concept of separation of Church and state. Supreme Court Justice (*gags) Hugo Black incorrectly invented this concept based on a single, sole mention from Thomas Jefferson -- when writing to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 (this if found in the Federalist Papers) -- a Church body which was concerned that the Government might interfere with its sovereign affairs -- mentioned that the First Amendment would serve to protect the Church from state control.

Jefferson never proffered that the reverse would also be true. However, Judge Black invented this reverse-is-true concept to apply the literal word "separation" as to mean a non-interference axiom in both directions. Thus, Black not only saw the very real law which [only] prohibits the federal [and not states] government(s) from interfering with publicly-held Christian practices, but he imagined that the law also prohibited the Christian Church from "interfering" with the [again, only] federal government.

Since none of the founders saw that distinction as being necessary ¹, they didn't have the foresight mention of that distinction in the First Amendment. That was probably their one and only failing when they created the "Republic of these united states". And that is what eventually allowed our republican nation to fall into the concept of a democratic tyranny now known only as the United States [of America].

===================================================================================================

Though this doesn't aspire entirely to my interpretation of the founder's intent (my interpretation is more strict than given here), this excerpt ² is a very good explanation of the "wall of separation between Church and state".

Spoiler

• The process of drafting the First Amendment made the intent of the Founders abundantly clear. Before they approved the final wording, the First Amendment went through nearly a dozen different revisions and intensive discussions. Those discussions, recorded in the U.S. Congressional Records, from June 7 to September 25, 1789, made clear their intent for the First Amendment.
• By it, the Founders were saying that they did not want in America what they had had in Great Britain. They did not want one denomination running the nation. They did not want everybody to be Anglicans or Catholics or any single denomination. They wanted God’s principles to run the nation, not one denomination. This intent was well understood, as evidenced by court rulings after the First Amendment.
• ...On November 7, 1801, the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, wrote Jefferson. They were concerned that the guarantee of the “free exercise of religion” appeared in the First Amendment. To them, this suggested that the right to religious exercise was a government-granted, rather than a God-granted, right—thus implying that, some day, the government might try to regulate religious expression. They believed that the freedom of religion was a God-granted, unalienable right, and that government should be powerless to restrict religious activities unless, as the Baptists explained, those activities caused someone to “work ill to his neighbor.”
• Jefferson understood their concern. In his response on January 1, 1802, he assured them that the free exercise of religion was, indeed, an unalienable right and would not be meddled with by the government. Jefferson pointed out to them that there was a “wall of separation between church and state,” to ensure that the government never would interfere with religious activities.

===================================================================================================

Today, the concept that only Christians may serve in public office ¹ may seem draconian, but that was the rightful norm when God established this nation in His wisdom and mercy. But, since Hugo Black's winning judicial vote (5 to 4) back in 1962 ³, which officially removed authority-led prayers from public school, we've slowly removed God from all aspects of the public square and -- eventually -- from all walks of life; save for the remnant of faithful Christians who steadfastly stand up for God and Jesus and continue to proclaim (as do I) that Jesus is the only way to God and that we all need to be saved from the consequence of our sinful nature, which is death.

Because I'm one of those few remaining Christians, I take as many opportunities as I can to say that each person I encounter needs the Lord in their life. I try to remember to say it to everyone at some point and I now say it to all who read this.

Repent of your sins and accept the salvation that Jesus died on the cross for when he died for you. And accept that He arose from the grave, victorious over death itself and that He is the King over creation. He is the champion for your soul and your greatest friend. Let Him enter your heart and allow yourself to be indwelt by His Spirit. The Lord reigns and His patience is coming to an end. When He returns for His Church, count yourself among us so that you can live forever and not be subject to the judgement by God at the end of time.

===================================================================================================

Footnotes & Bibliography:

1.) The founding fathers routinely involved Christianity in the government, even to the extent of holding Church services in the Capital building for many years as well as holding virtual Christian litmus tests as to whether anyone could be eligible to serve in public office. The very notion that anyone who wasn't either a believer in Christ or -- in very rare cases, at least -- a deist who acknowledged the one true God (even if they weren't openly professing a belief in Christ), was someone that the founders didn't think could be trusted at any level of authority and those non-believers would be rightfully shunned from society if they continued to reject their pleas for accepting the salvation that Jesus brings.

2.) Barton, David. "First Amendment: 'Separation of Church and State'?" retrieved from "http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/FirstAmendment/", 13 May, 2016, Web.

3.) Engel v. Vitale. 370 U.S. 421. Supreme Court of the United States. 1962. Wikipedia, retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale", 13 May, 2016. Web.

===================================================================================================

I know God is real..

But not having a seperation, between Church and State, is an awful thing

The Catholic, Church had so much power here in Ireland. And look at what they did..

ever hear of the Magdalene laundries

Or even look at a History, book cant even count the abuses by the Church.. which only happened, cos they had more power than the government.

Religion, should have nothing to do with Government.

I was once a Christian, like yourself, but all that changed..

Dont wanna talk about that stuff here in public.. but I used to be very similar to you lol..

But seriously, Church and State need to be separated..

Kehsct wrote:

Well, obviously not sane looking at this:

Diabolical wrote:

But, really, am I sane? You would only know whether or not I'm sane if you took a poll of the many voices in my head as to whether they all agree on that. While some voices are unsure what to say, other voices will shout to the heavens about how crazy I am, while other -- less obnoxious -- voices quietly and with cold determination ask "Crazy? Why he is only diabolical, not crazy." Those countless voices -- each reminiscent of Hannibal Lecter's -- offer clean calculations of reason: "Surely, this notion that he is anything but diabolical is clearly just...your imagination."

Plus, Christian college just seals it for me. Your history seems to be twisted in favor of your religion. Not in the favor of what really happened. I do agree that some things are kept out of the history books, but some of them are by the Vatican. How many Christian books are we finding that directly contradict the Bible? Are any of these books mentioned in our history books? No.

The founders knew well what atrocities the Vatican had a history of as well as the Church of England. The King or Queen of England was the head of the Church and they got power hungry. The Vatican was Vicar of the Catholic Church and he often would become power hungry. But, modern Christians saw that, when actually reading the Bible, there was no hierarchy such as was employed by both state Churches (or the Eastern Orthodox, for that matter).

No, most Christians in America's founding saw the corporate Church (meaning the combined "Bride of Christ") as having only one head and that is Jesus Christ. The levels of leadership in the Catholic and Episcopalian Churches surpassed that which was outlined in the New Testament of the Bible. But, more importantly, devout Christians mainly feared corruption...as right they should. I believe that Church should have power in government. But that is to say that no denomination should have power, just individual Christians who are rightfully and righteously elected to represent the people. God would put in the hearts and minds of people whom they ought to vote for. That was generally true for the first 130 years or so of our nation's history.

You see, when Christians get together, and put aside our denominational differences, we actually have certain core beliefs that are common amongst us all and those commonalities do not need to belong to any one denomination (or even "non-denominational" Churches). That is the union of the family members in the House of God. I am a Christian and I will trust whomever God puts in my heart to trust among my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. It's a relationship that those on the outside have difficulty grasping. Because there is a unity that Jesus gives us through His Spirit that indwells each born-again Christian. It allows us to recognize each other just as you might recognize a close relative that's been away for awhile.

The family aspect of the Kingdom of God is what unites the Church to Christ. We all share the inheritance that Jesus has. He is called the first-fruits of our resurrection because His resurrected form is what we will be like when we are resurrected from the grave also. We are brothers and sisters in Christ which means that we are members of the House and Family of God and we have authority under Heaven in the Kingdom of God.

That is the majesty of the believers in Christ. For all who have accepted His free gift of salvation have a blessed hope and assurance that they are each special in the Kingdom of God and have the power and authority of God overshadowing them and indwelling them. I have the Spirit of God in me. I am not speaking metaphorically nor am I speaking in hyperbole. I mean the literal Spirit of Jesus Christ is in me as well as in all other Christians who devoutly proclaim they've accepted the salvation of Christ.

That is a free gift that is available to anyone who repents of their sinful nature.

************************************************************************************************************************************

I would vote for Donald Trump if he were to repent but he says he's never done anything wrong before. Since all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, Donald Trump is a liar or doesn't know what he's saying. Either way, in my estimation, he is not the Christian that he tried to claim to be when he held up his mother's Bible once upon a time at a rally a couple months back. If he were an authentic Christian, the first thing I would imagine he'd do is humble himself before the Lord and before man. But he doesn't and that is why I can't accept him as my candidate for President. But I've already covered what I think about the current state of politics.

Finally, you asked where are all the Christian books out there that challenge the Bible. Well, actually there are many books that challenge the Bible. But they aren't authored by Christians since a true Christian would never question the authority of the Word of God sine that Word is a part of Christ Himself and a part of what He spoke into existence when He created the world. But I'm sure you don't believe that.

Lest you wonder, there indeed are many books criticizing the Bible by people who call themselves Christians but don't practice the faith they claim to have. For them, it would be far better if they were never born because the punishment they will receive if they don't repent will be far greater than for regular disbelievers who reject Christ. If they hadn't been born, they would be raised in Heaven incorruptible like all the aborted and still-born children throughout history. But, as it were, they are trying to lead Christians and potential Christians astray which is a defilement before the throne of God.

Oh my god. Can you just answer in short paragraphs like everybody else? Do you have to write a short story every time you type? Also, ever heard of religious persecution? That's what you Christians did for thousands of years until non-Christians finally stood up for themselves. The Romans fed Christians to the lion until Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Then Christians did the same to whoever wasn't Christian or Jewish. Also, if god exists, why are we in this world? Why do we have a non-utopian world? Is he some sadistic being that just wants to watch us scurry around, kill each other, and freak out at new problems? Are we just some experiment to him? Tell me the answer.

Kehsct wrote:

Oh my god. Can you just answer in short paragraphs like everybody else? Do you have to write a short story every time you type? Also, ever heard of religious persecution? That's what you Christians did for thousands of years until non-Christians finally stood up for themselves. The Romans fed Christians to the lion until Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Then Christians did the same to whoever wasn't Christian or Jewish. Also, if god exists, why are we in this world? Why do we have a non-utopian world? Is he some sadistic being that just wants to watch us scurry around, kill each other, and freak out at new problems? Are we just some experiment to him? Tell me the answer.

but yes, I agree with the other stuff you said

oceanhawk wrote:

Kehsct wrote:

Oh my god. Can you just answer in short paragraphs like everybody else? Do you have to write a short story every time you type? Also, ever heard of religious persecution? That's what you Christians did for thousands of years until non-Christians finally stood up for themselves. The Romans fed Christians to the lion until Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Then Christians did the same to whoever wasn't Christian or Jewish. Also, if god exists, why are we in this world? Why do we have a non-utopian world? Is he some sadistic being that just wants to watch us scurry around, kill each other, and freak out at new problems? Are we just some experiment to him? Tell me the answer.

If God isnt real, explain all this....

but yes, I agree with the other stuff you said

Kehsct wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Kehsct wrote:

Oh my god. Can you just answer in short paragraphs like everybody else? Do you have to write a short story every time you type? Also, ever heard of religious persecution? That's what you Christians did for thousands of years until non-Christians finally stood up for themselves. The Romans fed Christians to the lion until Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Then Christians did the same to whoever wasn't Christian or Jewish. Also, if god exists, why are we in this world? Why do we have a non-utopian world? Is he some sadistic being that just wants to watch us scurry around, kill each other, and freak out at new problems? Are we just some experiment to him? Tell me the answer.

If God isnt real, explain all this....

but yes, I agree with the other stuff you said

Science can explain all this.

Defines many of the Christian ideals

Just popping in. God isn't real. There's no proof that he exists.

@Caesar once said that I was a nihilist: that means I don't believe in God and that I believe that life makes no sense. I still agree with that.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Just popping in. God isn't real. There's no proof that he exists.

Pablo22510 wrote:

@Caesar once said that I was a nihilist: that means I don't believe in God and that I believe that life makes no sense. I still agree with that.

Caesar wrote:

Each one has their opinion.

Pablo22510 wrote:

True, and I respect most of them.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Just popping in. God isn't real. There's no proof that he exists.

@Caesar once said that I was a nihilist: that means I don't believe in God and that I believe that life makes no sense. I still agree with that.

God is real,

Doubt it. Let's try this:

God, if you're real, create a forum account called 'I'm Real' and post 'Hullaballoo' on this thread.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Doubt it. Let's try this:

God, if you're real, create a forum account called 'I'm Real' and post 'Hullaballoo' on this thread.

Kehsct wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

Doubt it. Let's try this:

God, if you're real, create a forum account called 'I'm Real' and post 'Hullaballoo' on this thread.

I swear, somebody else is gonna see this and do this.

Kehsct wrote:

Oh my god. Can you just answer in short paragraphs like everybody else? Do you have to write a short story every time you type? Also, ever heard of religious persecution? That's what you Christians did for thousands of years until non-Christians finally stood up for themselves. The Romans fed Christians to the lion until Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Then Christians did the same to whoever wasn't Christian or Jewish. Also, if god exists, why are we in this world? Why do we have a non-utopian world? Is he some sadistic being that just wants to watch us scurry around, kill each other, and freak out at new problems? Are we just some experiment to him? Tell me the answer.

Maybe if you actually read what I'm writing, you might not say some of this stuff...

And, for the benefit of anyone who wants a clear distinction about what I'm talking about, I'm putting together a separate thread that actually goes through a lot of this stuff with careful attention to detail, though not a book. And divides it up in an orderly fashion.

Look for it to appear in the off topic section soon.

And you can thank Sir McSquiggles for that idea.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Just popping in. God isn't real. There's no proof that he exists.

@Caesar once said that I was a nihilist: that means I don't believe in God and that I believe that life makes no sense. I still agree with that.

There's no proof that God doesn't exist, either.

For that matter, where's the proof that you exist?

Where's the party?

You should all be happy that Ted Cruz isn't going to run (ruin) your country. If Trump is insane, then Cruz is a rabid dog.

Trump might be a litlle insane, but I don't think he'll be as bad as you fear.