What would have happened if...

Soldjer325 wrote:

While the StG44 had a shorter range than the Karabiner 98k rifle, it was more effective at close quarters and could out-range both Soviet weapon

Soldjer325 wrote:

The rockets, while being considered ineffective, were improving, and could easily be used by the generals (Hitler's dead) to deal major moral blows to Soviet troops

Soldjer325 wrote:

the Rocket planes nearly could halt the Russian air force

Soldjer325 wrote:

BTW, one of Germany's most abundant oil resource was actually an oil factory in Romania, which was always heavily guarded.

I'm just a fan of Germany's weapon technology.

Want me to continue with my prediction?

Soldjer325 wrote:

I'm just a fan of Germany's weapon technology

During the Great Patriotic War(WWII), the Red Army conscripted 29,574,900 men in addition to the 4,826,907 in service at the beginning of the war

The Germans could never fight that.

Look at this chart:

The Germans could never win.

I'm not saying Germany would BEAT Russia alone, I'm saying they could push them back and hold them off with the extra troops, tanks, planes, and supplies from the western front. Plus in my situation Germany then turns to trench warfare, which is known to be a effective defense against superior numbers.

Quasi-duck wrote:

During the Great Patriotic War(WWII), the Red Army conscripted 29,574,900 men in addition to the 4,826,907 in service at the beginning of the war

By the way, those are losses, as in KIA amount

It is possible that Germany could have been better positioned militarily.

Maximilien wrote:

It is possible that Germany could have been better positioned militarily.

Do not forget USSR was being supplied with boat-loads of tanks,trucks,& material from USA.All that would stop.

Soviet conscripts were UNtrained boys with rifles,being pushed forward by a commander that would just as soon shoot his own troops,in FULL view of all the others,as he would the enemy.

The Chinese HATED the Russians.After the fall of Japan,they would have attacked the Russians as well,IF the US would sell them material.

Another plus for Zee Germans,no more Allied forces bombing the bejesus out of them on a Daily basis.Give them a few months to rebuild the factories,and soon they begin to mass-produce the machines they Need.Better machines than what the Russians have.

The Luftwaffe gains air supremacy,tracks Soviet troop movements..no more Hitler meddling with Generals War plans ...

Germany Waits for Russian winter to pass Before launching another attack (learning from Hitler's mistake)

Stalin continues his ideological purges,His Ruthless treatment of The People....mass defections,maybe even a revolt.

Patton himself said "We should continue right to Moscow".

Much of all this would depend on HOW the German surrender was worded,and what the Allies demanded.

Finally! Someone who gets how the world war 2 really is, and not the popular, "Germany would've lost no matter what" that's true only when Hitler is the ruler, without him mucking up all the war strategies, and advance weapon production, Germany would've been a nigh unstoppable war machine. With only the complete force of the allies being able to stand up to them and defeat them.

And Germany could've even tried to persuade the Soviet troops to turn on Russia, with promises of a home, a fair, post-war salary, and a pardon for all actions taken during the war. These are things, that were severely lacking in the Soviet Union at the time

Soldjer325 wrote:

And Germany could've even tried to persuade the Soviet troops to turn on Russia, with promises of a home, a fair, post-war salary, and a pardon for all actions taken during the war. These are things, that were severely lacking in the Soviet Union at the time

alomost everything I would have said, you basically said

Quasi weeps for your lack of knowledge. Quasi points to three battles: Berlin, Operation Spring Awakening and Seelow Heights.

In Berlin, the men left fighting were children, retired folk and SS who would go around killing everyone. That is not an effective force.

In Seelow Heights, Germans last chance at stopping the Russians, the Germans were crushed.

In Operation Spring Awakening, the last mass of German forces, a strong army, that could've thrown back the Soviets for a little, was destroyed by Germany's own air force with incredible efficiency by accident. A nation that does this cannot win a war.

Ah Zee wrote:

Soviet conscripts were UNtrained boys with rifles,being pushed forward by a commander that would just as soon shoot his own troops,in FULL view of all the others,as he would the enemy.

Ah Zee wrote:

The Chinese HATED the Russians.After the fall of Japan,they would have attacked the Russians as well,IF the US would sell them material.

Ah Zee wrote:

The Luftwaffe gains air supremacy

Ah Zee wrote:

Germany Waits for Russian winter to pass Before launching another attack (learning from Hitler's mistake)

Ah Zee wrote:

Stalin continues his ideological purges,His Ruthless treatment of The People....mass defections,maybe even a revolt

Soldjer325 wrote:

By the way, those are losses, as in KIA amount

Ah Zee wrote:

Do not forget USSR was being supplied with boat-loads of tanks,trucks,& material from USA.All that would stop.

Soldjer325 wrote:

And Germany could've even tried to persuade the Soviet troops to turn on Russia, with promises of a home, a fair, post-war salary, and a pardon for all actions taken during the war. These are things, that were severely lacking in the Soviet Union at the time

Quasi-duck wrote:

Quasi weeps for your lack of knowledge. Quasi points to three battles: Berlin, Operation Spring Awakening and Seelow Heights.

In Berlin, the men left fighting were children, retired folk and SS who would go around killing everyone. That is not an effective force.

The Battle of Berlin was fought in the last months of the war.The Germans sending EVERY able-body to try to stop the Russians (and the Allies,but more the Russians) Yes,I know of this Battle.I had the opportunity to talk with a man who was THERE,hear him tell what it was like First-hand.Part of hitler's "youth corps"

In Seelow Heights, Germans last chance at stopping the Russians, the Germans were crushed.

In Operation Spring Awakening, the last mass of German forces, a strong army, that could've thrown back the Soviets for a little, was destroyed by Germany's own air force with incredible efficiency by accident. A nation that does this cannot win a war.

Quasi points to 3 Battles at the END of the War....many months after the point this discussion was to have taken place.I was under the impression THIS discussion was occurring as The Allies began to cross The Rhein into Zee German heartland,with Hitler ousted in a successful coup,and The Soviets still pushing into Poland...not at The End of the War,with Germany's war machine Decimated,the German people broken,and the Allies & Soviets rushing to Berlin in a race to see who could grab more of Germany.Perhaps I missed that,if so I apologize as ALL my remarks will be incorrect (having been based on erroneous timetable)

Ah Zee wrote:

Soviet conscripts were UNtrained boys with rifles,being pushed forward by a commander that would just as soon shoot his own troops,in FULL view of all the others,as he would the enemy.

That is ridiculous, you are thinking of Germans. Do you even have a source for this or are you just making stuff up?

Soviet commanders. Read up on the Battle of Stalingrad.

Scary stuff.Soviet army NOT like it's western counterparts.

Ah Zee wrote:

The Luftwaffe gains air supremacy

The Luftwaffe could not do this, it had lost any chance of controlling the skies in '41.

Once the Allies Stopped bombing Germany,and Germany rebuilds it's factories,YES,they could.

The Luftwaffe,even diminished,was a Much better force than was the Soviet Air Force.

Ah Zee wrote:

Germany Waits for Russian winter to pass Before launching another attack (learning from Hitler's mistake)

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Why in God's name would you attack in winter? Invasions are a summer time activity. Hitler's mistake was that he attacked too close to winter...

.................................. Correct. And spring in Russia is also catastrophic for attacking.

Ah Zee wrote:

Stalin continues his ideological purges,His Ruthless treatment of The People....mass defections,maybe even a revolt

Eh, the Soviets called it The Great Patriotic War for a reason. Also, his purges were not ideological. More baseless lies. Thousands of people (scientists,politicians,soldiers,etc.) were sent to Siberia & to gulags for speaking out against Stalin.This is FACT.So yes,very much ideological in nature.

Is called "Great Patriotic War" by Soviet leaders.Those who WIN the wars write the history books.The Communist regime wanted to retain power,keep the Masses 'in-line'/easy to control.Who wants to be called "un-patriotic" or a "traitor" ?

Soldjer325 wrote:

And Germany could've even tried to persuade the Soviet troops to turn on Russia, with promises of a home, a fair, post-war salary, and a pardon for all actions taken during the war. These are things, that were severely lacking in the Soviet Union at the time

Have you heard what Russian troops did to German people? Do you really think they would disappoint Lenin and Stalin? They're was a cult of personality in the USSR, leaders were liked.

More like a Cult of Power.The leaders had Guns,and soldiers with guns to either shoot you,or to take you away to Siberia if you did not do what they said to do. THAT was life in the USSR.Fear was used to keep the Masses doing what they were told to do.The German army treated Russians like stray dogs,and The Soviets treated Germans the same way.They had NO love for each other.One would line up 300-500 of the other and slaughter them with no remorse.

This is 1944, the German war machine was crippled, but still powerful, the Allies have just started their campaign in east France (a month or two before the battle of the bulge), and the Russians were only just beginning an invasion of eastern Europe with a large force attempting to capture Romania, where the reinforcements would be sent to secure the Romanian oil fields.

Russia's main tactic was mass charges, and if you faltered, or moved in the wrong direction, you were shot dead.

Ah Zee wrote:

Quasi-duck wrote:

Quasi weeps for your lack of knowledge. Quasi points to three battles: Berlin, Operation Spring Awakening and Seelow Heights.

In Berlin, the men left fighting were children, retired folk and SS who would go around killing everyone. That is not an effective force.

The Battle of Berlin was fought in the last months of the war.The Germans sending EVERY able-body to try to stop the Russians (and the Allies,but more the Russians) Yes,I know of this Battle.I had the opportunity to talk with a man who was THERE,hear him tell what it was like First-hand.Part of hitler's "youth corps"

In Seelow Heights, Germans last chance at stopping the Russians, the Germans were crushed.

In Operation Spring Awakening, the last mass of German forces, a strong army, that could've thrown back the Soviets for a little, was destroyed by Germany's own air force with incredible efficiency by accident. A nation that does this cannot win a war.

Quasi points to 3 Battles at the END of the War....many months after the point this discussion was to have taken place.I was under the impression THIS discussion was occurring as The Allies began to cross The Rhein into Zee German heartland,with Hitler ousted in a successful coup,and The Soviets still pushing into Poland...not at The End of the War,with Germany's war machine Decimated,the German people broken,and the Allies & Soviets rushing to Berlin in a race to see who could grab more of Germany.Perhaps I missed that,if so I apologize as ALL my remarks will be incorrect (having been based on erroneous timetable)

Ah Zee wrote:

Soviet conscripts were UNtrained boys with rifles,being pushed forward by a commander that would just as soon shoot his own troops,in FULL view of all the others,as he would the enemy.

That is ridiculous, you are thinking of Germans. Do you even have a source for this or are you just making stuff up?Soviet commanders. Read up on the Battle of Stalingrad.

Scary stuff.Soviet army NOT like it's western counterparts.

Ah Zee wrote:

The Luftwaffe gains air supremacy

The Luftwaffe could not do this, it had lost any chance of controlling the skies in '41.Once the Allies Stopped bombing Germany,and Germany rebuilds it's factories,YES,they could.

The Luftwaffe,even diminished,was a Much better force than was the Soviet Air Force.

Ah Zee wrote:

Germany Waits for Russian winter to pass Before launching another attack (learning from Hitler's mistake)

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Why in God's name would you attack in winter? Invasions are a summer time activity. Hitler's mistake was that he attacked too close to winter... .................................. Correct. And spring in Russia is also catastrophic for attacking.

Ah Zee wrote:

Stalin continues his ideological purges,His Ruthless treatment of The People....mass defections,maybe even a revolt

Eh, the Soviets called it The Great Patriotic War for a reason. Also, his purges were not ideological. More baseless lies. Thousands of people (scientists,politicians,soldiers,etc.) were sent to Siberia & to gulags for speaking out against Stalin.This is FACT.So yes,very much ideological in nature. Is called "Great Patriotic War" by Soviet leaders.Those who WIN the wars write the history books.The Communist regime wanted to retain power,keep the Masses 'in-line'/easy to control.Who wants to be called "un-patriotic" or a "traitor" ?

Soldjer325 wrote:

And Germany could've even tried to persuade the Soviet troops to turn on Russia, with promises of a home, a fair, post-war salary, and a pardon for all actions taken during the war. These are things, that were severely lacking in the Soviet Union at the time

Have you heard what Russian troops did to German people? Do you really think they would disappoint Lenin and Stalin? They're was a cult of personality in the USSR, leaders were liked. More like a Cult of Power.The leaders had Guns,and soldiers with guns to either shoot you,or to take you away to Siberia if you did not do what they said to do. THAT was life in the USSR.Fear was used to keep the Masses doing what they were told to do.The German army treated Russians like stray dogs,and The Soviets treated Germans the same way.They had NO love for each other.One would line up 300-500 of the other and slaughter them with no remorse.

Soldjer325 wrote:

Russia's main tactic was mass charges, and if you faltered, or moved in the wrong direction, you were shot dead.

I have a pretty chart for you guys, have a look at it and tell me that the Germans could stop the Soviet onslaught(they couldn't).

@Quasi-duck

The Soviet Union won the war, but the United States of North America won best positioned against the Soviet Union.

Maximilien wrote:

The Soviet Union won the war, but the United States of North America won best positioned against the Soviet Union.

Komrade Quasi...I suggest you watch the following movies.

With NO children nearby.!! Also,keep in mind,as movies,these will hold events that happened as told by another.So,much as you would tell an event to another who was not there,certain parts will be embellished,some will be deleted,some will be 'for effect',and some 'romanticized' in an effort to make a Good tale.However,these Still tell a tale that Did happen,and thus Need to have many factual events to give the viewer a visual story they May have read about in books. Here are my suggestions :

Enemy at the Gates. (2001 - Joseph Fiennes,Jude Law) The Battle of Stalingrad

Defiance (2008 - Daniel Craig) Belorussian farmers fighting Zee Germans

Saving private Ryan (1998 - Tom Hanks,Matt Damon) a good D-Day movie.

I would also like to say A Band of Brothers is an Excellent series about ONE American unit from boot camp to The End of the war.But,it is 10 parts,each about an hour in length,so NOT something you will watch in 1 day. It also includes interviews with the Real men.And...it is entirely Americans vs.Germans,no Soviets vs.Germans.Just an In-The-Trenches-&-hedgerows view of The War.

Also,I would like to suggest both [color=#FF0000]Tears of the Sun & Black Hawk down [color=#0000FF]to give Quasi a view of life Outside western Europe & America that most people forget.So quasi can See the....lack of value life holds to these people,the Disdain for Others,the sheer Brutality some people show to others.Why? Because,my friend,THIS is how life Was during this game we play.Several spots were "Bastions of Civilization",but the rest of the world...life was cheap.[/color][/color]