What would have happened if...

The Normandy landings resulted in the creation of the Western front in 1944 and the liberation of France.

The allies made the liberation of Paris (USA, UK and France).

The allies won the battle of the bulge, causing the German collapse in the Western front.

After the battle of the bulge, the Allies began a major offensive on the West of Germany. The Allies gave the battle of Berlin to the Soviets.

The allies had an important influence on the fall of Germany.

Without D-day, Russia would have been struggling to push in, and the only allied force in Europe being on the Italian peninsula, an area that Germany could easily defend from.

And the majority of the experienced Russian military generals were either killed, or forced to work camps, because they were deemed enemies of Stalin.

Soldjer325 wrote:

Without D-day, Russia would have been struggling to push in, and the only allied force in Europe being on the Italian peninsula, an area that Germany could easily defend from.

I have an idea for a what if story, I'll make a forum about it in the future

Ah Zee wrote:

Komrade Quasi...I suggest you watch the following movies.

With NO children nearby.!! Also,keep in mind,as movies,these will hold events that happened as told by another.So,much as you would tell an event to another who was not there,certain parts will be embellished,some will be deleted,some will be 'for effect',and some 'romanticized' in an effort to make a Good tale.However,these Still tell a tale that Did happen,and thus Need to have many factual events to give the viewer a visual story they May have read about in books. Here are my suggestions :

Enemy at the Gates. (2001 - Joseph Fiennes,Jude Law) The Battle of Stalingrad

Defiance (2008 - Daniel Craig) Belorussian farmers fighting Zee Germans

Saving private Ryan (1998 - Tom Hanks,Matt Damon) a good D-Day movie.

I would also like to say A Band of Brothers is an Excellent series about ONE American unit from boot camp to The End of the war.But,it is 10 parts,each about an hour in length,so NOT something you will watch in 1 day. It also includes interviews with the Real men.And...it is entirely Americans vs.Germans,no Soviets vs.Germans.Just an In-The-Trenches-&-hedgerows view of The War.

Also,I would like to suggest both [color=#FF0000]Tears of the Sun & Black Hawk down [color=#0000FF]to give Quasi a view of life Outside western Europe & America that most people forget.So quasi can See the....lack of value life holds to these people,the Disdain for Others,the sheer Brutality some people show to others.Why? Because,my friend,THIS is how life Was during this game we play.Several spots were "Bastions of Civilization",but the rest of the world...life was cheap.[/color][/color]

Maximilien wrote:

The allies won the battle of the bulge, causing the German collapse in the Western front.

After the battle of the bulge, the Allies began a major offensive on the West of Germany. The Allies gave the battle of Berlin to the Soviets.

The allies had an important influence on the fall of Germany.

Soldjer325 wrote:

Without D-day, Russia would have been struggling to push in, and the only allied force in Europe being on the Italian peninsula, an area that Germany could easily defend from.

Soldjer325 wrote:

And the majority of the experienced Russian military generals were either killed, or forced to work camps, because they were deemed enemies of Stalin.

Something Hitler did not do, if he died in 1944, the German Generals would've had enough time to build a proper defense, and force Russia to negotiation

The map just helped prove our point...

Soldjer325 wrote:

The map just helped prove our point...

I'm not trying to prove the superior strength of either side, I'm just saying without the American supplies, and the pressure of a west front, the east front would've been a lot more heavily defended, and would've slowed the Russians down majorly, plus with Germany able to build to their industrial strength, with the lack of allied air raids, they'd stop the Russain offense, but be unable to really invade like in 42, due to the small amount of oil reserves, and large amount of forces facing them. Therefore, the east front would've turned into stale mate between the two side with having one superior numbers vs the other with superior military technology.

Are you kidding me? Most of the German tank forces were Pz. IV's and they were struggling to build anything new. If they did they could barely run it. The Russians had it all! I mean, look what the Russians were rolling out in '45-'46!

Now some Soviets on holidays in Dalian

Again, this is 1944

Yeah, so? These weapons were only developed one and two years later.

Here are German technology from all throughout World War 2.

Tiger I-1942

Tiger II-1944

Messerschmitt Me 163 interceptor -1944

Plus even prior to Hitler's rise to power in 1933, Germany's military industry was leader in many fields, and after Hitler refunded the program, Germany was able to gain access to military technology that was considered decades ahead of its time.

The Tiger didn't have sloped armour, was getting wrecked in '43. Tiger II could barely move it consumed so much fuel. The 163 is known amongst pilots to be one of the worst planes ever, I can show you a link about it if you like.

A few hundred tanks couldn't stop the onslaught of thousands of T-34's. Have you heard of the Polish 7TP versus the tanks of the Heer? It was much better than German tanks of time. There wasn't enough of them though and they were overrun. This would happen to German tanks.

Most of our opinions are clashing because we both have different opinions of the war, in my opinion, if Hitler wasn't in power, Germany would've been MUCH more powerful. Plus your opinion seem a little biased towards the Russian over the other nations

My opinion isn't biased, I read an awful lot of historical stuff. The Soviets really were powerful. Have you heard of Operation Unthinkable?

Yes I have, a scrapped plan to attack the Russians in the late 1940s. It was scrapped, because A. Russia heavily outnumbered the West troops, and B. The majority of the populace wanted peace after the War. You also need to understand that history is written by the victors, which means most historical war records are biased towards victors of the conflict.

Soldjer325 wrote:

Russia heavily outnumbered the West troop

Soldjer325 wrote:

You also need to understand that history is written by the victors, which means most historical war records are biased towards victors of the conflict.

I know, I've read German, Russian, American, British, etc. accounts. Every single one of them is biased. You know who has the best planes? The Russians, the Germans, the Japanese, the Americans, the British but definitely not the Russians, the Germans, the Japanese, the Americans, or British.