Your Favourite Military Commander

Another feat which is a highly interesting part of that story, is that the Kaiser was so impressed with him, that he tried to send a Zeppelin with machine guns, ammo and medicine (and the cloth of the Zeppelin would have served for tents). Ofc, the crew would not be able to return, with the Zeppelin made into tents, and would be added to the officer corps of Von Lettow-Vorbeck.

They started out twice after flying to Romania or Bulgaria, having to turn back and then made their 3rd run into Africa.

This was one of the first very long, never tried before, flights into a strange climate, with an especially lengthened Zeppelin for the purpose. That trip, largely over enemy territory without stopping, must have been some crazy adventure by itself.

Unfortunately, when they finally arrived, they were unable to locate Von Lettow-Vorbeck and they failed in their mission's purpose.

Nevertheless, it gave the Brits such a scare, that they launched an extensive miss-information campaign, sending out radio messages (they knew would be intercepted by the Zep) that Von Lettow-Vorbeck had been captured and surrendered, in the vague hope the Zeppelin crew would abandon their mission. Ofc they did not.

Ah, those were days, when honour still meant something

_Pontus_ wrote:

Another feat which is a highly interesting part of that story, is that the Kaiser was so impressed with him, that he tried to send a Zeppelin with machine guns, ammo and medicine (and the cloth of the Zeppelin would have served for tents). Ofc, the crew would not be able to return, with the Zeppelin made into tents, and would be added to the officer corps of Von Lettow-Vorbeck.

They started out twice after flying to Romania or Bulgaria, having to turn back and then made their 3rd run into Africa.

This was one of the first very long, never tried before, flights into a strange climate, with an especially lengthened Zeppelin for the purpose. That trip, largely over enemy territory without stopping, must have been some crazy adventure by itself.

Unfortunately, when they finally arrived, they were unable to locate Von Lettow-Vorbeck and they failed in their mission's purpose.

Nevertheless, it gave the Brits such a scare, that they launched an extensive miss-information campaign, sending out radio messages (they knew would be intercepted by the Zep) that Von Lettow-Vorbeck had been captured and surrendered, in the vague hope the Zeppelin crew would abandon their mission. Ofc they did not.

Ah, those were days, when honour still meant something

IMO the story of the man, the commander and the hero Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck, given the situation he had to deal with, his resources, his isolated location and the sheer number of enemies he was facing, make him my absolute war hero and the best commander.

By today's standards, he was racist, but back then, racism was common in the times of colonies!

In those days and the context of those days, that remark has very little value, especially if you mean today's definition of racism.

Conversely, I doubt he was a racist in the context of his days as well as ours, as he allowed Africans to be NCO's and carry out all the duties a German soldier or NCO would carry out, if they were up to the task. This was, btw, unheard of and unseen in those days in the rest of the WORLD! This is also why the Askaries held him in such high esteem.

Indeed, they could not become an officer, but, heck, neither could any German that wasn't born of nobility.

Now for today:

- Arabs and Africans are by todays standards utter and complete racists...

- The only people still keeping slaves, are people that are 'dark' or 'yellow' skinned...

So, these people have not learned a thing in the last 100 years....

In that context, you should thus agree that he was less of a racist than any of the other Europeans on the African continent and EVEN less of an racist than the Africans under his command. And all that under even today;s definition.

Oh, and if it is bothering you that by some author's definition he should be called a racist, please don't delve into Winston Churchill or ANY of the great ones...

Let alone, the commanders mentioned earlier in this thread, especially not those from the 1700-1800's, who did not even consider Africans human beings....

Georgy Zhukov.

_Pontus_ wrote:

In those days and the context of those days, that remark has very little value, especially if you mean today's definition of racism.

Conversely, I doubt he was a racist in the context of his days as well as ours, as he allowed Africans to be NCO's and carry out all the duties a German soldier or NCO would carry out, if they were up to the task. This was, btw, unheard of and unseen in those days in the rest of the WORLD! This is also why the Askaries held him in such high esteem.

Indeed, they could not become an officer, but, heck, neither could any German that wasn't born of nobility.

Now for today:

- Arabs and Africans are by todays standards utter and complete racists...

- The only people still keeping slaves, are people that are 'dark' or 'yellow' skinned...

So, these people have not learned a thing in the last 100 years....

In that context, you should thus agree that he was less of a racist than any of the other Europeans on the African continent and EVEN less of an racist than the Africans under his command. And all that under even today;s definition.

As did the Brits wherever they were, the Dutch in Indonesia, the Spanish in the Americas etc and so forth.

Those were different days with different context.

The only ones still doing such stuff are now mostly found outside Europe !

So why accuse a great guy who did "normal stuff" for his days (stuff which Africans, Arabs and Asians were doing at the same time ...), but totally ignore that this stuff is over for us westerners (at least in the larger pat of europe, so we learned), while the only ones still doing it are notably: Africans and other peoples on other continens

Hence: lets discuss the racism of Shaka Zulu (by the way also a military genius in his own context)

Qassim Abdullah wrote:

Georgy Zhukov

_Pontus_ wrote:

Qassim Abdullah wrote:

Georgy Zhukov

Yes, definitely should be on the list. How did he manage not to get killed by Stalin?

"When we arrive at an enemy minefield, our men act as if it wasn't there." -Marshal Georgy Zhukov

He was a good strategist, but his letters to his family reveal he didn't give a damn about losing men.

As did Foch and almost all of the other commanders. It was war and men were dying. At least he respected his men (not Foch) and fought for their rights until 1967 to get their deserved pension. He also treated his Askari soldiers as if they were almost German. The Brits did not even allow Africans to carry arms until they had no choice (as in: no more men).

Good point, but other commanders, i.e. Patton, took more care of their men.

Different era

Errr, no?

Both of them fought in the Second World War?

German East African Campaign was in 14-18

During WW2 and just before, Von Lettow-Vorbeck refused any role in the Nazi propaganda and war machine.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Good point, but other commanders, i.e. Patton, took more care of their men.

Except for the part where he slapped his own soldier who was suffering from trauma.

Well, he didn't like cowards and very little was known about PTSD back then.