I have been playing this game since June and have been loving it so far. I have just won my first game because of tactical bombers and I think I am pretty good at using them. BUT there is has always been something that confused me, patrolling. I have tried to use patrols of fighters to prevent tacs from obliterating every ground unit underneath. But usually, the patrol does not even touch the enemy tac bombers and my ground troops suffer as a result. It has gotten to the point where I myself send planes straight through enemy patrols because I know they won't do anything to them. Is this a bug or am I just not noticing something?
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Well, when they're refueling aircraft units remain as an aircraft icon, not a truck icon, and fighters rip'em to shreds. If they are "infantry" class, then something more interesting is going on because of the effectiveness of fighter strikes against them.DxC wrote:
Do you have evidence for that?
Well, it might be, but the stat sheet does say convoy when refueling so a little ambiguous I guess.
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Well, that's the assumption given that it says convoy when refueling, but do you have information that would contradict Montana's claim that, when refueling, they are more vulnerable to fighters than expected from infantry class?
More than a little ambiguous, too, because in every other situation where an aircraft unit becomes a "convoy" it changes from an aircraft icon to a truck icon or transport ship icon. Ditto for ground units moving by sea.
So when you say fighters, you mean you been hitting refueling planes with naked interceptors, without TAC? Do you have any specific battle stats for any of the hits?
Yes. But when I can catch a big wing on the round refueling, I will hit them with everything I can get in position to attack before they are fully refueled. I will take a single wing of all available fighters and TBs, and then peel them off for direct attacks of 5-squadron wings, starting with fighters and finishing with TBs. In most small-map games, I maintain 20 to 25 TB squadrons, and at least 15 fighter squadrons ---- and I will produce a lot more fighters as needed if I need to counter a serious challenger with a big tactical air force. (I have had up to 85 TB squadrons in Pacific map games, but never close to that on the smaller maps.) I used to produce and maintain more, but I have gradually evolved better tactics with my TB wings whereby I incur fewer TB casualties.DxC wrote:
So when you say fighters, you mean you been hitting refueling planes with naked interceptors, without TAC?
The ability to hit the grounded enemy wing, with three to five 5-squadron fighter wings, followed by four or five 5-squadron TB wings, all striking within 60 to 90 seconds, can be devastating when the enemy squadrons are reduced to 5 hit points each while refueling. Of course, I won't use unescorted ("naked") TBs when I know the opponent has fighters on the prowl, but most players I've encountered have not had the foresight to maintain a fighter reserve and keep a fighter CAP over their home base, so you often catch their refueling fighters on the ground at the same time as their TBs.
No recent stats I can quote, just anecdotal evidence, but the next time I have the opportunity to fully unload on someone's refueling Big Wing, I will be back to share battle stats with you, with a comparison of the damage inflicted by 5-squadron wings of fighters vs. 5-squadron wings of TBs.DxC wrote:
Do you have any specific battle stats for any of the hits?
I know the tactic of stacking TBs with strats and fighters is common among many experienced players, but I have only had occasional need to use it, simply because I have rarely needed to jam my TBs into enemy-controlled airspace as a last resort. I will bait the enemy air force into making mistakes in my air space, hit them on the ground when I can, and then range mostly unopposed while I romp over their ground units. I fully recognize that better players will have better answers for my "finesse" tactics, and many experienced players will not fall into my traps, and if not, I will ramp up production and fight an air war of attrition if I must.
Some confusing with planes / convoys seems often be caused by the (wrong) optical representation.
However, the optic here is irrelevant for the calculation, as one can see also in other situations - e.g. artillery, just one example; it has a range scope, but that's only optical, because it hits at the same moment when it fires the gun, no matter from wich distance - and also only optically is, that artillery shoots every 5 seconds, but of course it's calculated only once per hour.
A plane, standing on an airfield, is either full refueled, then it is aircraft class, in each case, it has its usual values as aircraft class and it fights in the air when it is attacked in this situation, even if it's optically still standing on the ground.
Or the plane is at refueling, then it has convoy status with the corresponding values (as displayed in the unit info), and even if it is optically still displayed as a plane, (ground-) convoys are infantry class.
Think different: animated Board Game; not Simulation
I've never noticed any mathematical "intermediate states".
Warranty Disclaimer: The observations / experiences described in the above text are partly over 12 months old, therefore, despite own Convincing, no guarantee is given for a current validity of all that gibberish...
@Restrisiko: Put it to the test, my friend. Attack refueling aircraft with a 5-squadron fighter wing, then attack the same refueling stack with a 5-squadron tactical bomber wing, and then share the results. If refueling aircraft units are indeed "infantry" class units until fully refueled, something rather odd and very inconsistent is occurring in this case.Restrisiko wrote:
. . . even if it is optically still displayed as a plane, (ground-) convoys are infantry class.
@maje205MontanaBB wrote:
Okay, so your THREE L3 tactical bomber squadrons in a single wing attacked a stack of enemy light tanks, which were protected by FIVE L3 fighters squadrons patrolling above the light tanks . . . what was the result? How much damage was suffered by the bombers, fighters and tanks?Also, merely passing through a fighter wing's patrol radius will not necessarily inflict damage on the bombers unless they attack something within the fighters' radius. The aircraft patrol function is based on a 15-minute ticker, whereby damage is inflicted on enemy units within the patrol radius every 15 minutes.
A good thing to try out is counting the time in detail. You see the enemy bombers coming back to base in 5m3secs. They will have let's say 10m25secs refuelling time. They then have a 15m34secs trajectory to your units. Your patrolling aircrafts are halfway between enemy airfield and your land units.
With this information, plan it carefully so that when the 15 minutes tick, the enemy bombers are in your fighter's patrol area. Devastation usually follows.
OR just use a direct attack in that instance. You'd want to inflict the max amount of damage as possible whle catching them at that point and the 25% damage value of a patrol seems underwhelming.darksoul111 wrote:
A good thing to try out is counting the time in detail. You see the enemy bombers coming back to base in 5m3secs. They will have let's say 10m25secs refuelling time. They then have a 15m34secs trajectory to your units. Your patrolling aircrafts are halfway between enemy airfield and your land units.With this information, plan it carefully so that when the 15 minutes tick, the enemy bombers are in your fighter's patrol area. Devastation usually follows.
Not at all. Doing it the way I described allows you to take NO damage in return. If you attacked directly, you would then take normal damage in return... which is not good.Time4Alchemy wrote:
OR just use a direct attack in that instance. You'd want to inflict the max amount of damage as possible whle catching them at that point and the 25% damage value of a patrol seems underwhelming.darksoul111 wrote:
A good thing to try out is counting the time in detail. You see the enemy bombers coming back to base in 5m3secs. They will have let's say 10m25secs refuelling time. They then have a 15m34secs trajectory to your units. Your patrolling aircrafts are halfway between enemy airfield and your land units.With this information, plan it carefully so that when the 15 minutes tick, the enemy bombers are in your fighter's patrol area. Devastation usually follows.
I'd still rather prefer taking normal damage from a refuelling stack of planes.
However to each their own method!
Except if they refuel in a fortified, AAA protected city...Time4Alchemy wrote:
I'd still rather prefer taking normal damage from a refuelling stack of planes.However to each their own method!
True, and in fairness, I've discovered that if desired you are even able to do both !
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