State-Based Damage Efficiency
Or SBDE, is a percentage rating for stacked units of the same kind. If your stack of units has 100 points in strength (attack/defense value) but only 70% in SBDE, they will inflict damage as if they were only at 70 points in strength.
Please note that this explanation is valid for the 1.0 version of the game only. As new players are only seeing 1.5 version games this guide does not apply as of October 2020. 1.5 version games use a different formula for efficiency based on stack size.
A way to understand this, is to think of your troops getting in each others way, clogging up battle lines and not being able to fire on the enemy.
Also SBDE is depending on the unit "health/HP" or "morale/condition". If a unit is only at 50% health/HP it will not have 100% SBDE but less. It will still have more than 50% SBDE so in some cases a hurt unit will deal almost the same as a normal, full health unit.
So how can you improve SBDE rating?
Imagine a line of units. 10 infantry standing in line firing at a target. The 10 behind them can't fire, because the others in front of them are blocking their view. Now imagine two lines next to each other with 10 units in each. Both lines can fire now.
So what you want to do, is split your large stack into smaller stacks when engaging someone. You can do this by splitting out a stack and send them a little further ahead than the other stack (further ahead than where the enemy is standing). Sending the stacks to different end locations will make sure they don't merge upon engaging the opponents units. This way your troops will engage as two separate stacks having much better SBDE.
Be wary
Personally, I use split stacks to great avail, so I highly recommend it. But keep in mind, if the defending stack is very large, it might be "dangerous" to split your units into inferior forces.
Also splitting stacks while you are the defender will cause the split stack to lose it's defensive bonus!
The same mechanics apply to all types of units, be it planes, navy or land units.
List with maximum numbers to achieve 100% SBDE for stacked units:
(made by @BRDubbs )
i. Aircraft – Interceptor – 5
ii. Aircraft – Naval Bomber - 5
iii. Aircraft – Strategic bomber – 5
iv. Aircraft – Tactical bomber - 5
v. Anti air – 8
vi. Anti air – SP – 6
vii. Anti tank – 8
viii. Artillery - 8
ix. Artillery – SP – 6
x. Armored car – 8
xi. Infantry – Commandos - 8
xii. Infantry – Infantry – 8
xiii. Infantry – Mechanized - 6
xiv. Infantry - militia - 11
xv. Infantry – motorized - 8
xvi. Naval - Battleships – 3
xvii. Naval – Carriers – 3
xviii. Naval – Cruiser – 5
xix. Naval – destroyer - 7
xx. Naval – submarines – 7
xxi. Tank - destroyer – 5
xxii. Tank – heavy – 5
xxiii. Tank – light - 6
xxiv. Tank – medium - 5
xxv. Aircraft - Rocket fighter - 3
xxvi. Railroadgun - 3
Happy hunting.
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Coral that really depends on what you are attacking but I would take your 6 tanks straight in to enemy territory, and use the other two to take undefended provinces to each side.
Although on a really tough target where I expected heavy losses I would send all 8 as one stack, presuming that after a couple of battles I would lose a tank or two.
The spoiler list have mistakes/ a mistake ( or its outdated)..... submarines are 7 for 100% at 8 they have 95% (and for 9 they have 88% )
Yes, the numbers for subs has changed, now you should not go over 7 to get the most bang for the buck.
I am not big on nuclear stuff but, is it the same numbers for nuclear BBs and subs as for regular ones?
Nuclear BBs = 3, nuclear subs = 9.tombal wrote:
... is it the same numbers for nuclear BBs and subs as for regular ones?
A group of 8 Sub's is 95% Stat Based Efficiency even tho you said it in this thread???
Yes, look at the last three posts before yours Techrax, where this was discussed. The sbde limits on subs were adjusted.Techrax wrote:
A group of 8 Sub's is 95% Stat Based Efficiency even tho you said it in this thread???
I have gone back and edited the lists in this thread for the people who only read the first page and don't read to the end for the latest information.
thank's i didn't know it changed!!!
An un-advertised update to the SBDE of Rocket Fighters was apparently included with the recent balancing changes.
Edit to the lists in this thread today to read:
Rocket fighters - 3
Thanks to @byzantion1683 for pointing this out.
so what happens when you stack over the SBDE. does that make your troops weaker or stronger?
Their efficiency goes down.attacker101 wrote:
so what happens when you stack over the SBDE. does that make your troops weaker or stronger?
Consider this example with a stack of 16infantry units:
The first 8 infantry will function, and the rest are mostly along for the ride. They are hiding behind the first 8 with their hands in their pockets and trying not to get shot at, while taking credit for the accomplishments of the first 8.
This is how I see SBDE. As your stack gets larger the effectiveness goes down. Now to be fair there is a curve of efficiency, it is not an abrupt drop off after the limit. I prefer to think of it as a fairly strict limit though, and that works well.
Now if you have 8 infantry and 8 militia (not really recommended, but for example purposes) in one group then each unit is 100% effective.
To put numbers to it with level 1 units;
Infantry attack infantry class with 2.0
Militia attack infantry class with 1.5
16 infantry are only as effective as 8. 8*2.0 =16 damage against infantry
compared to
(8 infantry * 2.0) + (8 militia * 1.5) = 28 damage against infantry.
So in each case you produced 16 units, but you do a lot more damage with a properly arranged group.
Sbde not make sense to me at all. I know how it function but i do not like it at all. idea is that some troops are taking space from other from same stack, like there is not enough space for all of them take action. But when you patrol with 10 fighters and 10 tac. bombers you have less sbde then when you spit that stack in two, they are more dangerous and they do not disturb each other even they are in patrol over the same circle. Logic? None. But that is the way the game function. Many things are not logic, but moderators keep saying how that is in real life.
Why would 8 infantry and 8 militia be more effective than 16 infantry? I know things are like that in game, but why would they be more effective in real life? Maybe Militia do not hide?VorlonFCW wrote:
Now if you have 8 infantry and 8 militia (not really recommended, but for example purposes) in one group then each unit is 100% effective.
I can imagine that some troops would disturb other troops if there is to many in one stack, so in my opinion sbde should consider all units in one stack, or in one circle of patrol. Than if you have stack with more units sbde of all of them should drop.
Maybe Infantry are taller, so they shoot over the heads of the militia.patriota75 wrote:
Why would 8 infantry and 8 militia be more effective than 16 infantry? I know things are like that in game, but why would they be more effective in real life? Maybe Militia do not hide?
Probably more factual than you think. Militia are common people with a rifle. Infantry at least had horses.
Units beyond SBDE limit do seem to have some attack power. I have checked this with different stacks but didn't see a consistent value for the extra beyond SBDE.
Example: 7 subs @ 100% has 7 units of attack, 8 subs @ 95% has 8*0.95 = 7.6 units of attack (value of 1 unit depends on research level and type of target.) In this case the extra sub attacks at 60% power. Using similar calculations, different stacks have given different results.
patriota75 wrote:
"Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance- to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they
break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth
knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When
they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they
have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in
death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.
Something like that, but in battle for Cer was not a draw, Serbian army defeated superior Austro-hungarian army . Now we have population about 7 M people and I assume we would have 40 M if we did not participate in almost every war that was in Europe in last let say 300 years. We had great casualties in WWI and WWII. In both we were on wining side.
But this is of topic, in my video I wanted to show why only one row is more efficient.
Of course, there isnt a hard cap from 100 to 0, but efficiency will gradually go down on several thresholds. For subs the values are for example: 1-7=100% 8=60% 9=30% 10=10% 11+=5%. Every unit has different values like this.Nooberium wrote:
Units beyond SBDE limit do seem to have some attack power. I have checked this with different stacks but didn't see a consistent value for the extra beyond SBDE.Example: 7 subs @ 100% has 7 units of attack, 8 subs @ 95% has 8*0.95 = 7.6 units of attack (value of 1 unit depends on research level and type of target.) In this case the extra sub attacks at 60% power. Using similar calculations, different stacks have given different results.
I was checking the sbde values for tactical bombers and they appear to be illogical, to put it mildly, since they seem to create another almost optimum value, of 7 (instead of 5). Was this done on purpose?freezy wrote:
Of course, there isnt a hard cap from 100 to 0, but efficiency will gradually go down on several thresholds. For subs the values are for example: 1-7=100% 8=60% 9=30% 10=10% 11+=5%. Every unit has different values like this.Nooberium wrote:
My second question is more general: why was it chosen to apply the sbde only on the attacking value, and not on the defense hit points as well? Using the arguments at the start of this post, I can easily claim that if you pack far too many tanks in the same area, not only they attack less efficiently, but also a random bomb falling in that area will lead to far greater damage.
In fact, if SBDE was treated like an extra "reverse fortification" modifier, it would lead, in my opinion, to making the game even more strategic, as it would lead to a much bigger disadvantage for the simplistic view "let's stack everything together, and let's only go for one type of units".
SBDE does apply to defensive fire as well.
Yes it does, but if the intended goal was to lower the defense of overstacked armies, clearly they didn't succeed because it leaves out of the picture three very important cases:
1. Artillery exchanges (being a range attack, there is no defensive fire)
2. Naval combats of capital ships (for the same reason)
3. Airplanes patrolling or attacking land units (the planes receive defensive fire, never use their own, and the increase in hitpoints more than compensates the less efficiency, in many cases, due to better damage control).
If these cases were minor or rare it wouldnt be an issue - but clearly they are major part of the game.
EDIT: To put some numbers into this, in order to be concrete.
Let's suppose that (around Day 14) you face an army of
8 AA Lvl2
8 Infantry Lvl3
6 LT Lvl2
8 arty Lvl2
6 AT Lvl2
and you want to attack it with planes. Your air fleet consists of 15 interceptors, 15 tac, and 15 strat all Lvl2.
If you do a test, you will see that by far the best strategy is to send all your planes together (no splitting, sbde, or whatever strategic concept). Furthermore, if you have more planes, you simply add them as well - the more the much better. Effectively by adding more planes you add (a small amount) of attack, a big amount of defensive hitpoints, and you can laugh at the notion of "efficiency".
Since there is no ceiling in this, there is neither strategy or optimum.
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