In World War II and the years after, many country borders changed and incorporated other territories into them. For example, the Weimar Republic became the German Reich which incorporated Austria, the Sudetenland, western Poland, Alsace-Lorriane, and Luxembourg. Now I see how this could be problematic, but it's good for roleplay and functionality since non-core provinces are worthless unless you have a massive empire. I think that you should only be able to add a non-core province to your core provinces:
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Carking the 6th wrote:
Who would have won? Portugal or the rebels?Claudio NVKP wrote:
they would've won in a few years, and that would prevent the even bloodier civil war from happening.Nevertheless this suggestion doesn't really make sense if you think about it.
That I can agree with, Saviour.
Portugal.
They wouldn’t have. Eventually another revolt would happen, and eventually Portugal would be forced out. The Saviour should have negotiated with them and NATO to make sure the next government to rule that land would not be communist.
I'm reviving this post, this is probably my favorite suggestion I have made so I would continue to aegue why it should be added. I can also change the potential rules for it to make it feasible.
I think a better solution would be that core provinces might be cores of several playable factions.
For example, Nationalist China, Communist China, and probably Manchukuo ought to get the appropriate resource and defence buffs that befit a core province within the entire Chinese region incorporating their territories. In addition, territories in China occupied by Japan at the start of the 1939 map ought to be Chinese core provinces.
HoI.IV has this feature and it makes a lot of sense in this case particularly.
Sure, but how do you balance that? It would need to be a certain amount of points that everyone shares so as to not give someone an advantage…
I honestly think that people should be able to expand their core territories regardless of the realism of ethnic territory and other factors. Basically if you have occupied a province for a few days and it borders you, then you can convert it into a core province. This would make roleplay better, increase resource production, make better looking borders, and give you more land that could be liberated or recaptured in the event of war so that way all of your former territories don't fall into the hands of other players. Having a core province in certain areas would also make it more strategic, like if you are landlocked and border a nation with a coastal city you want to capture it to induct that province into your territory so you can produce ships and resources faster. Overall it would make cities more useful and make games more strategic and competitive (fun).
Ah yes because we all know that Fr*nch people could become German after 3 days…
I hope I am conversing civilly. I'd like to counter this
Why what's the point of having core provinces at all then? Not having to take core provinces into account would if anything make the game less strategic and hence less competetive because people would need to think and use strategems less.Commander Schleicher wrote:
I honestly think that people should be able to expand their core territories[...]
increase resource production, make better looking borders,
Having a core province in certain areas would also make it more strategic, like if you are landlocked and border a nation with a coastal city you want to capture it to induct that province into your territory so you can produce ships and resources faster. Overall it would make cities more useful and make games more strategic and competitive (fun).
How would a reduction in realism make roleplay better?Commander Schleicher wrote:
regardless of the realism of ethnic territory and other factors. Basically if you have occupied a province for a few days and it borders you, then you can convert it into a core province. This would make roleplay better,
First (and many esp. HWW players play this to re-enact or to have roleplays which necessitate some realism) this wouldn't make sense. The Indonesians never became Dutch after the colonisation, and continued to resent their occupation especially in the 20th century as Asian nationalism rose. Nor did the Indians the British.
These were after three hundred years. On the scale of a game that takes place over perhaps ten or fifteen years, the complete cultural assimilation of an occupied territory would be impossible. Genocide yes, but that is disgusting and I don't want to play that game. Cultural assimilation, no. As such, this is not realistic.
Wouldn't my suggestion of shared cores be better for that? There is no reason why France for example could be, or should be, assimilated into Spain even though it might invade it.Commander Schleicher wrote:
and give you more land that could be liberated or recaptured in the event of war so that way all of your former territories don't fall into the hands of other players.
Vietnam didn’t become Chinese even after 1000 years of occupation.
Regarding your feedback to my idea, I think a balance is possible.Carking the 6th wrote:
Vietnam didn’t become Chinese even after 1000 years of occupation.
For example, Danzig is a classic point of controversy in central Europe. In the HWW map at least, such points ought to be considered. I would suggest it is a shared core province of the German Empire, Poland, and the FCD. Furthermore, as far as occupied territories go, I would also make the entirety of German-occupied Sudetenland and Japanese-occupied China core provinces of Czechoslovakia and the Republic of China respectively
HWW, sure, you don’t have to care about balance there so anything goes. The real issue is normal games, where countries need to be somewhat balanced in starting strength and potential.
By "balance" I mean "not going completely irredentist and claiming Paris is rightful Russian soil" but also not making literal Shanghai not a Chinese core province.Carking the 6th wrote:
HWW, sure, you don’t have to care about balance there so anything goes. The real issue is normal games, where countries need to be somewhat balanced in starting strength and potential.
Again, I wasn’t talking about HWW. In world at war and Clash of nations, you NEED balance, you can’t give someone the ability to have many times the cores of someone else. It just feos not work.Lord Crayfish wrote:
By "balance" I mean "not going completely irredentist and claiming Paris is rightful Russian soil" but also not making literal Shanghai not a Chinese core province.Carking the 6th wrote:
HWW, sure, you don’t have to care about balance there so anything goes. The real issue is normal games, where countries need to be somewhat balanced in starting strength and potential.
For one, simply allowing custom maps to switch cores and that stuff would work far better, simply does not realistically work.Commander Schleicher wrote:
- Roleplay would be improved because you can make core provinces realistic
- You ignored me, this game is not even close to realistic. I said flat out that I am disregarding the ethnic regions as a factor because people get all riled up over it.
As for two, either way, it’s just not a good idea. Why add more complexity to the game? The current system is pretty good as it is. Giving new players more things to worry about will just increase and already high turnover rate and kill the game.
Yeah I meant exclusively for HWW. Obviously I wouldn't want this feature in balanced rounds. TBH it's not even needed in HWW, but I am proposing it as being better than arbitrarily adding core provinces.Carking the 6th wrote:
Again, I wasn’t talking about HWW. In world at war and Clash of nations, you NEED balance, you can’t give someone the ability to have many times the cores of someone else. It just feos not work.
Again, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
In response toCommander Schleicher wrote:
- Roleplay would be improved because you can make core provinces realistic
- You ignored me, this game is not even close to realistic. I said flat out that I am disregarding the ethnic regions as a factor because people get all riled up over it.
1. What would be realistic about adding core provinces yourself more so than the default ones? If you think current borders are unrealistic, perhaps raise them to the developers.
Roleplay and realism would both certainly be improved by arbitrarily making provinces cores of other countries after a period of time, so as to render the very purpose of core provinces obsolete. At present the rise of morale after occupation fills this niche.
I might have misunderstood you, but this seems to be what your comments are proposing.
2. This game is somewhat realistic in that historic borders are generally obeyed, or at least, it is based on a historic event and it attempts to be realistic where reasonable. Allowing unrealistic features simply because some things are already unrealistic seems fallacious.
What, if not historic boundaries and/or the actual jurisdictions, should determine core provinces? Do you propose they be done away with entirely?
Since the concept I'm trying to put forward is too complicated for you, I'll instead suggest that we make all provinces the same "rank" as they are in S1914. Same color, no stripes, same resources.
Ah yesss, because conquered lands will totally be easy to occupy, have the same number of people joining the army, and be easy to extract resources from!
Instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks, could you explain what you mean please? The impression I've got is that you are saying that provinces will automatically become core provinces after a certain number of days. But what you've actually said is that "you can convert it into a core province" which implies manual action. Is this correct?Commander Schleicher wrote:
Since the concept I'm trying to put forward is too complicated for you
However, simply:
- Core province system is a necessary part of the game; however
- Players can choose to core provinces;
- There seems to be provided no incentive not to do so.
- Therefore, all provinces will eventually become cores of their invaders
The proposal in effect does away with an important part of the game, reducing the complexity and hence the strategy required. I don't see how this makes it any more "strategic, competetive, or fun". I have other problems with it but this is the main one.
Most provinces when captured begin with low morale and work their way up. At this rate, most will become cores around the same time that their morale stabilises. Therefore this role is already in effect fulfilled by an action that already exists.
It would be good as a custom round only feature
I'm not attacking anyone but it's clear you don't understand what I'm talking about. Basically, if a province has been occupied by you for a few days/has high enough morale then you can spend resources or time to convert it into a core province. I don't get the problem with this feature, you do know there is a difference between core and non-core provinces right? Why even have a core and non-core province system? Honestly it's kinda dumb that my whole empire is just a bunch of stripes.
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