aircraft carriers

Yeah, sorry. Did France and the Soviet Union get to build one?

Most AC have guns for point defence, simply by their nature no Captain (or player) would use their AC in ship-to-ship combat.

"The main armament of the [i]Illustrious class consisted of sixteen quick firing (QF) 4.5-inch (110 mm) dual purpose guns in eight twin-gun turrets, four in sponsons on each side of the hull. The roofs of the gun turrets protruded above the level of the flight deck to allow them to fire across the deck at high elevations. The gun had a maximum range of 20,760 yards (18,980 m).[/i]

Her light anti-aircraft defences included six octuple mounts for QF 2-pounder AA guns, two each fore and aft of the islandand two in sponsons on the port side of the hull.^[11] The 2-pounder gun had a maximum range of 6,800 yards (6,200 m)."

Illustrious was a AC class of the royal navy during WW2. It carried out raids on the Italian fleet. As you can see, the guns are more for defence.

Yes, France and the Soviets did get around to building them, I think.

The Soviets had no AC during WW2. Just prior to the German invasion, Stalin had ordered a modernization of the Red Navy, however this was interrupted by the Nazi offensive.

The French had three, but not too great ones.

Oh no, I was wrong! Well, Germany only had blueprints for the Graf Zeppelin and I can't find anything on Soviet AC, even in the 60's. I have a new idea, not sure what you guys will think of it.

In WWII, we have established that both Germany and the USSR had no AC. They still had some pretty unique stuff. I will start with Germany.

If we have a line of AC for as many countries as possible, Germany can only have one. To remedy this, I propose we give Germany some other units instead. They will be blueprint and prototype units, but they are pretty interesting. I think if we give Germany the Ratte and Haunebu I. I will start off with the Ratte. I will put in game stats after.

It's full name is the Landkreuzer P.1000 Ratte. It was a prototype tank. I have some stats below.

Weight: 1,000 tons

Length: 35 m(hull)

Height: 11 m

Width: 14 m

Crew: 20+, up to 41

Armor: 150-360 mm

Main Armament: 2x 280 mm 54.5 SK C/34

Secondary Armament: 1x 128 mm KwK 44 L/55, 8x 20 mm Flak38, 2x 15 mm MG 151/15

Engine: 8x Daimler-Benz MB501 20-cylinder marine engines

Ground Clearance: 2 m

Operational Range: ~190 km

Speed: 40 km/h

We can establish that this tank was a beast. I have some images of it's blueprints and such too below.

Onto the Haunebu I now. This was an aircraft.

It is very hard to find stuff on the Haunebu. It was very messy to say the least, when it comes to researching it. Multiple scientists died during research and at the end of the war, anyone related to it was killed by the SS. It was a round disc aircraft that had a radioactive thing inside it that made it negate the effects of gravity so it could fly at a few thousand kilometres an hour. It had a couple of cannons in rotating turrets underneath it.

Now what they should be in game.

Ratte: Infantry - Attacking, 15 - Defending, 18

Armor - Attacking, 20, Defending, 25

Aircraft - Attacking, nil, Defending, 1.5

Naval - nil, nil

Subs - nil, nil

Research cost - 10,000 goods, 10,000 Rare Materials, 50,000 money

Haunebu: Inf. - Att, 13 - Def, nil

Arm. - Att, 8 - Def, nil

AA - Att, 4 - Def, 7

Nav. - Att, 5 - Def, nil

Subs - Att, 3 - Def, nil

Research - 9,000 goods, 9,000 RM, 40,000 money

I will do the Russians later, I have stuff to do.

Butter Ball Bill wrote:

It is very hard to find stuff on the Haunebu.

Now onto the other matter, the land cruiser. There were even bigger versions of it, but I don't think it would be realistic to have them in the game. German didn't get to produce the aircraft carrier because it lost the Battle of Britain, but since the game is not historically accurate in terms of battles, we could have a German aircraft carrier.

Now, considering the Soviets, since they didn't have ACs and even today only have 2, I think they shouldn't have one. To replace the AC, I think they should have the rocket launchers called 'Stalin's Organs', or the Katyusha Rocket Launcher. Though other nations had them, the Soviet one were the first and the best.

I know about all the counties rockets, the nerbelwerfer, Ha-To, Calliope, Sturmtiger just to name a few. The Haunebu is not a UFO, that stands for Unidentified Flying Object, not a flying saucer. In post-war interviews, some people have said that they did see it. I take you haven't heard of Operation Reise, the Vril Society and the Vril women? The SS had a special branch for occult stuff. I can't remember the name as it is German but you should be able to find it easy enough. I have really looked into lots of things about WWII. The only reason I though the Soviets had AC was because I either read about them in a bad source or just made a mistake.

This is where I first heard about the Haunebu projects. It is a TV series on Yesterday. http://watchseries-online.ch/category/forbidden-history.

How is the Ratte not realistic, yet you have no problem with the Maus being in-game? Not even a full prototype of the Maus was assembled. Then you have the Leopard 1, which is from the sixties.

Sorry for the short rant, but you struck a nerve, I love this stuff.

Well, we're total opposites. Actually, you were right when you said the Haunebu is not a UFO. The Haunebu wasn't a UFO because it never existed. As I said before, it was invented by conspiracy theorists. And about the SS's occult branch, I read about them quite a lot previously. Trust me, they couldn't have had a UFO (let's call it that, it's shorter than Haunebu) because with it, they'd have won the war. I mean, seriously, they didn't even have proper jets. Many of the jet prototypes crashed. They couldn't have had a UFO. Even the V2s were not accurate.

Now, about the Maus. Yes, prototypes were the only thing built, but that alone is better than the blueprints of the Haunebu (never built) and the Ratte (never built).

However, going back to my previous post, I still think it's better giving the Germans an AC and the Soviets the Katyusha Rocket Launcher.

You must not read half the posts! For the last month, I have watched documentary after documentary and ever since I could read I have been reading about WWII, so that is about 10 years of reading about it!

Call the Haunebu a FS(for flying saucer) because a bird can be a UFO. The Nazi's could've had jets from 1939, just like the Brits. They were most certainly NOT bad. All the research of the German would be further along because Hitler banned research for two years and sent his scientists to the Eastern Front. I agree with you about the Katyusha, but you have suggested nothing in place of my stuff for the Germans. Their FC made a lot of test flights.

I take you didn't watch any of Forbidden History or search Operation Reise, so here are links to both below.

Reise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Riese

Forbidden History: watchseries-online.ch/category/forbidden-history.

Another thing, Hitler died in Berlin and only his subs made it Argentina where a few surrendered. They then travelled to Neuschwabenland in Antarctica. We also be careful in case this thread gets banned or something.

I don't have time to watch the whole Forbidden History series, but I read about Project Reise. As is says at the beginning, its purpose wasn't clear. It was most likely some kind of defense project to resist against the Soviets, but even if it was a factory, it was to produce the supertanks secretly. And now, back to the jets part. You said they were good. Maybe for the era they were good, but they were definitely NOT secure. They definitely wouldn't have been able to be used in combat. They kept crashing.

You only need to watch one hour long episode of Forbidden History, they cover different topics in each episode. I will find the one about Haunebu for you if you like. About Reise, in the Osowka base it is apparently the one where they were building the Haunebu. There is also a a structure nearby that is for testing vertical takeoff aircraft. I will get some pics of them. Parts of all the bases have been blocked off with bricks and rockfalls.

Even if the Haunebu existed (which is extremely unlikely), I wouldn't want to see it in this game. It would be too unrealistic. We need things that have been historically proven, not invented by some conspiracy theorist. BTW, I was thinking that instead of giving the Italians an AC, we could give them the man-propelled torpedo they invented that wreaked havoc in British ports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_torpedo#Italy

Now, that short paragraph was just going back on track and explaining what should be on CoW and what shouldn't. After doing that, now we can go back to discuss about the existence of the Haunebu. Are you conscious that if such think had existed, the Germans would've won the war? And they didn't. About the pic, it doesn't prove anything. We can only guess and speculate about its purpose.

As I said, Hitler stopped his scientists researching for two years and sent them to the Eastern Front. All projects were two years behind, Haunebu included. Now, I have shown a structure for vertical takeoff and shown a base where the project was tested, both in the same location. We all know that all governments hide things, and the Nazi's did this more than anyone. I am guessing you have heard of "Foo Fighters", right? This was taken very seriously by the Allied High Command. So, this is irrelevant, I hear you thinking. It is not. It shows that some really weird stuff was appearing over the skies in Germany by the end of the war. Now, let us delve deep into the Vril society and their aliens with their zeppelin that travelled through space to these aliens.

Call me crazy, but this is one of a few possibilities. I think it is the least likely, but it is worth looking at. I don't like this one so I will be quick. The Vril society had some shady, secretive women with hair down to their feet which 'helped' them communicate with god-like aliens in a far away solar system. These aliens apparently sent them blueprints for the Haunebu and a space-worthy zeppelin to bring them to the aliens. They are meant to have successfully. I call bull on this theory though.

Now here we have a much more likely one(in my view). In the 1930's, the Nazi's started devolping disc shaped aircraft. They struck gold when an aircraft crashed in the Bavarian Alps and they recovered the wreck. The airframe was wrecked, but the powerplant was in decent condition so they used it on their craft. The craft that crashed is meant to be similar, or the same, as the craft that crashed in Roswell except the one in Roswell had a destroyed powerplant but an intact airframe. The Nazi's studied their wreck. This lead to the creation of the Haunebu. So on and so on, until they moved the project to Osowka, then the Allies came and the Nazi's wrecked the facility, hiding and possibly destroying Haunebu. I find this one to be the most likely as we are most likely NOT alone in this universe and there has always been sightings of aliens, mainly their aircraft, even before we could fly.

The third, and final one I know, is that some guy came up with the idea and the Nazi's did it. I can't remember this one very well, but it is unlikely. Not as unlikely as the Vril women, but still less likely than the second one. One of the many theories is true, but which one, we may never know.

The only german aircraft carrier that entered construction was the Graf Zeppelin, but was stopped over prioritisation for the Uboats, the graf Zeppelin was then sunk by the soviets as a target in 1947

The British illustrious class had an armoured flight deck of 76mm, eight 4.5 inch dual purpose (anti air and light ship I.e japanese suicide boat, 6 four barrelled anti air guns.

The American Essex class had 80mm of mahogany on its flight deck, five 127mm guns, 30 to 70 40 mm bofors guns, 55 to 76 20mm oerlikon guns.

The Japanese taiho class had 76 to 80mm of wooden flight deck, 12 100mm AA guns, 51 to 25 30 mm AA guns

Bear in mind German model has no stats because 1. Wikipedia doesn't provide the info and 2. It never entered service

Also British and American ac's were subject to refit after kamikaze Attack or general overhaul

About what you said about the UFOs appearing over the skies in Germany. I'm sure if that had happened, many more Allied planes would've been shot down, meaning that it would be crucial WW2 knowledge, but nobody knows about. In this discussion it seems to me no one is going to change sides. I think it doesn't make much sense we discuss about this. We should be debating about what could substitute the ACs in each of the nations. And, going back to my previous point, I don't think the thought of having Haunebus in CoW would be greeted by many people. It seems to unrealistic, and we would be going away from history and, talking strategically and militarily, the game would lose a lot of value. Heck, what could a guy do with 10 of these? He could wipe us out! Me personally, I am even against nukes. Noobs can build them and wipe your troops without having he himself having any troops.

I think instead of ACs, Germany should have the superheavy tanks. That is, if Germany doesn't get ACs, 'cos it seems a plausible enough idea. I mean, Hitler only cancelled their production because they lost the Battle of Britain and because Dönitz's ideas (for U-Boats) won over Admiral Raeder's (for destroyers, cruisers, battleships and ACs).

I am fine with no Haunebu if we get the Ratte! Thanks for the info too, Comrade Dave.

We'd hafta do some research, because maybe some people wouldn't want to have them in game. Perhaps there is another realistic superweapon Germany could have?

No, the Nazi's never built their best idea's. Unless they stick in some nerberwerfer, sturmtiger and some other junk but they are not really superweapons.