Hi and sorry if will be some mistakes in my english.
I'm playing bytro games since beta (started with supremacy 1914) and I have a suggestion since those days: Night Bonus.
We can check the game all day, but at night it's unfair because the time in others places is different or because the routine of each player.
The best solution would be a bonus on each map (chosen at the moment of the creation of it), i.e.: it gives +100% of any defence from 23:00 to 07:00 of the other day. This will give many strategical options and be more fair with the sleeping time.
Since this will be a feature on the creation of the map, players can choose it or not. Same for the time to enter a map already created: if he doesn't agree with that schedule he may: not come in and choose a better one or choose one without a bonus.
I guess that are many players with this problem in mind and many others (like me) who stop playing or play much less.
That's it. I hope this will be evaluated. Bye. 
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Sleeping is part of being at war man. There is no way your suggestion would make much sense since 100% defense bonus while people are sleeping (and assuming your troops would be "sleeping" ) is not fair at all. Plus, since this game has players from all over the world, there would be some many various times to attack someone.
Sleeping and night time is just part of the game. Be smart about your unit positioning before you get off for the night!
im sorry i dont understand what is unfair like without sleep your not gonna live what are you suggestion they ban the other player when your sleeping?RaposaRommel wrote:
Hi and sorry if will be some mistakes in my english.I'm playing bytro games since beta (started with supremacy 1914) and I have a suggestion since those days: Night Bonus.
We can check the game all day, but at night it's unfair because the time in others places is different or because the routine of each player.
The best solution would be a bonus on each map (chosen at the moment of the creation of it), i.e.: it gives +100% of any defence from 23:00 to 07:00 of the other day. This will give many strategical options and be more fair with the sleeping time.
Since this will be a feature on the creation of the map, players can choose it or not. Same for the time to enter a map already created: if he doesn't agree with that schedule he may: not come in and choose a better one or choose one without a bonus.
I guess that are many players with this problem in mind and many others (like me) who stop playing or play much less.
That's it. I hope this will be evaluated. Bye.
It's not unfair like a ban case, but it would be fair if all the players could play at same time and not be attacked when they couldn't do anything. If I'm playing against someone that always attack me when i can't see what's going on, the game will demands more effort from me everyday before I go to sleep. And when I come home tired after work for two days, that game will be lost.Larry is god lol lol wrote:
im sorry i dont understand what is unfair like without sleep your not gonna live what are you suggestion they ban the other player when your sleeping?
How many Generals haven't been successful throughout the ages by attacking the enemy base at night time or at the early morning when they weren't expecting it and completely unprepared? This is part of war. Before I go to bed I retreat my planes further behind my lines. I position my troops strategically where they can benefit the most from the terrain in case that they are attacked.
Agreed. But, militarly, the night time always benefited the defender. If you look at the attack time in the WWII, most of them ocurred at early morning. In the game, with this bonus, the attacks would be scheduled to arrive early morning and still would get the generals by surprise and would be more historically accurate.BMfox wrote:
How many Generals haven't been successful throughout the ages by attacking the enemy base at night time or at the early morning when they weren't expecting it and completely unprepared? This is part of war. Before I go to bed I retreat my planes further behind my lines. I position my troops strategically where they can benefit the most from the terrain in case that they are attacked.
The games 4x+ are very fun, but players with not enough time can't perform very well. The bonus could minimize this problem.
Like I said, historically the night time favors the defender. The troops wouldn't be sleeping, but more prepared because the dark hides the position of the guns and men.Tribunate wrote:
Sleeping is part of being at war man. There is no way your suggestion would make much sense since 100% defense bonus while people are sleeping (and assuming your troops would be "sleeping" ) is not fair at all. Plus, since this game has players from all over the world, there would be some many various times to attack someone.Sleeping and night time is just part of the game. Be smart about your unit positioning before you get off for the night!
Looking to the real world, one recurring problem is that the game tires the mind. I'm not talking about the 10% of the dedicated players, but the others 90% (casual players) left the game for some time after a couple of games (many friends of mine and other players do this).
Then you will say: it's their choice! But I imagine that Bytro would be happy seeing the base of players rising and (I guess) making the game more comfortable for most players is an good option.
By the way, about the tactics I already use them properly (see below my stats - I lost my older account) but it's like I said, tires me too much and I can't play for months in a row.
In Supremacy 1914 - Provinces conquered: 1.575, lost: 13. K/D (PvP
3,52 - Games: 17, Won: 16.
In Call of War - Provinces conquered: 1.233, lost: 2. K/D (PvP 18,53 - Games: 8, Won: 8.
In New World Empires - Provinces conquered: 487, lost: 13. K/D (AI 8,21 - Games: 6, Won: 5.
*Thirty Kingdoms was disabled (btw, please Bytro: bring it back. It was an amazing game).
Just because sleeping is part of the game, doesn't mean it necessarily should be part of the game. Also, I think the idea is that the diversity of time-zones in a given match is reduced, since the night bonus for that match incentivizes players who will be asleep at that time to join. Perhaps the primary purpose of his suggestion is to create games where most players happen to be awake at similar times.Tribunate wrote:
Sleeping is part of being at war man. There is no way your suggestion would make much sense since 100% defense bonus while people are sleeping (and assuming your troops would be "sleeping" ) is not fair at all. Plus, since this game has players from all over the world, there would be some many various times to attack someone.Sleeping and night time is just part of the game. Be smart about your unit positioning before you get off for the night!
Yes. Without sleep you're not gonna live, which is his point. His suggestion is literally the post you quoted. We should definitely have conversations about a game that continues while you sleep.Larry is god lol lol wrote:
im sorry i dont understand what is unfair like without sleep your not gonna live what are you suggestion they ban the other player when your sleeping?
I think most decent players (or at least the type who use this forum) do that too... including RaposaRommel. His suggestion doesn't eliminate this aspect of the game. It simply tries to find ways to balance it. Perhaps a 100% bonus is too much (I'm thinking more like 35 or 50) but we should recognize that there may still be a problem.BMfox wrote:
This is part of war. Before I go to bed I retreat my planes further behind my lines. I position my troops strategically where they can benefit the most from the terrain in case that they are attacked.
This has to be one of the most relatable things that has ever been said on this forum. A lot of players can be turned away by this aspect alone. This game favors highly active players like myself, which is fine, but it does so 24/7. Can't we talk about how that might be a problem? What about shoot-n-scoot, which erases defensive strategy while someone is inactive? We all know that the only reliable counter to shoot-n-scoot is to be active, so there is no debate about how this strategy can be abused against players who are asleep. What about AI declaring war? Although this issue is somewhat separate, one of its main problems is that AI don't sleep, so they have an advantage in that area. The point is that this suggestion should be given a chance. Besides, he didn't say it had to be applied to all games. He said it should be an option used when creating matches.RaposaRommel wrote:
Looking to the real world, one recurring problem is that the game tires the mind.
As players who have plenty time, energy, and skill to invest in a game, it's very easy for us to become out of touch with those who just want to invest some of those things. Sure, sleep is a part of this game, but perhaps its role should be reduced to a degree. In loving a game, we shouldn't be so quick to accept every aspect of it. In fact, we should look for things that need to be improved, in order to bring it closer to perfection.
I disagree, and so does history. There are far more examples of armies being wiped out at night or early morning when the opposition catches them off guard.RaposaRommel wrote:
Like I said, historically the night time favors the defender. The troops wouldn't be sleeping, but more prepared because the dark hides the position of the guns and men.Tribunate wrote:
Sleeping is part of being at war man. There is no way your suggestion would make much sense since 100% defense bonus while people are sleeping (and assuming your troops would be "sleeping" ) is not fair at all. Plus, since this game has players from all over the world, there would be some many various times to attack someone.Sleeping and night time is just part of the game. Be smart about your unit positioning before you get off for the night!
Looking to the real world, one recurring problem is that the game tires the mind. I'm not talking about the 10% of the dedicated players, but the others 90% (casual players) left the game for some time after a couple of games (many friends of mine and other players do this).
Then you will say: it's their choice! But I imagine that Bytro would be happy seeing the base of players rising and (I guess) making the game more comfortable for most players is an good option.
By the way, about the tactics I already use them properly (see below my stats - I lost my older account) but it's like I said, tires me too much and I can't play for months in a row.
In Supremacy 1914 - Provinces conquered: 1.575, lost: 13. K/D (PvP
In Call of War - Provinces conquered: 1.233, lost: 2. K/D (PvP
In New World Empires - Provinces conquered: 487, lost: 13. K/D (AI
*Thirty Kingdoms was disabled (btw, please Bytro: bring it back. It was an amazing game).
- Battle of Teutoburg Forest (Romans were harrassed all night by Germans)
- A lot of battles by Vlad the Impaler against the Ottomans were conducted at night while the enemy slept/camped
- U.S. navy were caught off guard and sleeping early in the Pacific War (Not to mention early morning attack at Pearl Harbor)
- U.S. Army rangers would constantly penetrate Germans lines in late 1944 while they slept
I don't feel like listing more you can watch Kings and Generals if you want to find out more. This is common sense and non-argument: sleep and a feeling of peace has a huge effect on combat readiness for a unit. Commanders know this and try to exploit if from their enemy.
With the suggestion of playing more with players in your timezone would make it very difficult to fill games. Plus I think it's fun to have different players from all over the world in a game.
If you want, you can create a custom game with your alliance and do exactly what you are saying!
You're literally asking for the point we keep making! YES. It would be possible to make a game where most people would happen to be asleep, since people would join if their time-zone allowed them to sleep during the night bonus for a particular match. How many times must we repeat ourselves? I'm not saying 100% of the players would be same time-zone, and it has to be tested, but let me give an example: If Night Bonus for a particular match was placed as 10:00pm to 6:00am PACIFIC TIME, then for someone in the United Kingdom (in real life), the Night Bonus would last from 6:00am to 2:00pm, since the United Kingdom is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Time (if I'm wrong, just pretend I'm right for the sake of the example). In this case, it would be better for people on Pacific Time to join that match, since they would get to sleep with a defensive advantage over players who are awake during those hours. On the other hand, people in the UK might not want to join that match, since most people would have a significant defensive advantage whenever this person so happened to be awake and attacked. Perhaps the hours need to seriously be changed, but the baseline example is set. If you don't understand what I'm trying to say, read it again. Also, usually one-sentence responses to multiple paragraphs tend to miss a point or two.Larry is god lol lol wrote:
dude I’m sorry your not making any sense that would not be possible to make a game we’re most people would be asleep.
I personally won't argue the historical point, but what I will say is that most of RaposaRommel's points, as well as mine are referring to how players and gameplay in general are affected. You addressed none of these, besides saying that you personally enjoy playing with those from all over the world. He already stated that Night Bonus would be an option to add into one's game upon creation. If anything, his main point is that "...the game tires the mind." Shouldn't we talk about that, instead of historical examples? Sure, games like this should try to incorporate strategy in a way that reflects real life, but only to a certain extent. It's one thing if some player argues in favor of units behaving differently depending on terrain, but it's a whole different ball game to argue in favor of REAL LIFE SLEEP being heavily involved in someone's strategic experience for a game, based off historical accuracy. The historical argument may be correct, but it absolutely comes secondary to one's sleep, or general well-being when it relates to any game, let alone Call of War.Tribunate wrote:
I disagree, and so does history. There are far more examples of armies being wiped out at night or early morning when the opposition catches them off guard.
Also, I refuse to be misinterpreted either purposefully or unintentionally, so I'll say that of course not all players get exhausted from playing this game. However, one of Raposa's points was that players may have been turned away from this aspect of the game, and not everyone goes to the forums to announce their problems. By the very nature of them leaving, we don't hear from them, so it seems like they don't exist, when the reality might be quite the opposite.
Well I didn't bring up the historical argument, only corrected it.
To be blunt, this seems like a personal issue when it comes to your well-being. I've been playing for years and don't feel overwhelmed or "tired of mind" when playing. This game helps me relax and enjoy some alone time from the world. If you are at a point of a game exhausting you, perhaps take a break?
Every now and then I'll take some time off all my technology. It's very healthy for you! Go workout, fishing, hiking or whatever. This is just a game!
MZM7 wrote:
However, one of Raposa's points was that players may have been turned away from this aspect of the game, and not everyone goes to the forums to announce their problems. By the very nature of them leaving, we don't hear from them, so it seems like they don't exist, when the reality might be quite the opposite.
Yes I understand this point. Following the same logic, a lot of people don't go to the forum to voice their support either.
Thank You MZM7. I really didn't expect such level of discussion. The big problem of the forum is that the topics aren't discussed and just refuted.
I said, and you said before, most of these attacks was early morning. Then with a bonus at 07 AM you can schedule to arrive arrive 07:01 and it will be early morning in the game (or in real life).Tribunate wrote:
I disagree, and so does history. There are far more examples of armies being wiped out at night or early morning when the opposition catches them off guard.
But, like as MZM7 said very well, this isn't the point. The point is what I mencioned before:
Tribunate, you seems to be a dedicated player (and certainly won't turn this feature on), but let's look to those 90% of the players (the casual ones).RaposaRommel wrote:
Looking to the real world, one recurring problem is that the game tires the mind. I'm not talking about the 10% of the dedicated players, but the others 90% (casual players) left the game for some time after a couple of games (many friends of mine and other players do this).Then you will say: it's their choice! But I imagine that Bytro would be happy seeing the base of players rising and (I guess) making the game more comfortable for most players is an good option.
No one can deny the incredible number of players that abandon the game during a match. And this is one of the reasons: wake up in the morning and see that don't have another chance to rebuild after a night attack.
This is the biggest problem of Bytro: keep the players playing.
This deserve to be discussed and I'm here insisting on it (and listening to things like "go fishing" when you get tired) because I've started on beta when the game was played in a journal with pins instead of troops and I love it since then.
I'm not attacking the game. I really want it goes on forever and that I can play it as comfortable as possible.
I'm a long time player myself. I remember the pins on the journal back in 09 when Supremacy first came out and have merged to Call of War three years ago.
This discussion seems to be looping back to activity of players or not. I've had victory with night attacks and I've been devastated by night attacks. I shrugged and just thought part of the game.
This setting won't be put in place that much I know.
However if you really wanted to do this you really could very easily. Create a game (if you have high command) or join and alliance for internal matches, and create the setting you desire. Get everyone to cooperate and you have your suggestion.
No worries, you're not being blunt at all. Did you read the part of my first post where I essentially said that players like us who can invest heavily in games like this are the minority, and that we can lose touch with the majority of players? You're literally one player who finds this game relaxing, yet you seem to be using yourself as refutation of Raposa's whole suggestion, which wouldn't even affect you.Tribunate wrote:
To be blunt, this seems like a personal issue when it comes to your well-being. I've been playing for years and don't feel overwhelmed or "tired of mind" when playing. This game helps me relax and enjoy some alone time from the world. If you are at a point of a game exhausting you, perhaps take a break?Every now and then I'll take some time off all my technology. It's very healthy for you! Go workout, fishing, hiking or whatever. This is just a game!
About taking a break: You're literally making our point for us. Players who get exhausted from this game take breaks, or really just leave altogether. Not only that, but dedicated players like Raposa are also being turned away by this aspect. Yes, it is just a game, so perhaps it shouldn't be so demanding to some players.
Yes, but those who completely stop playing the game because of a problem are less likely to appear in a forum than those who are still playing. Do you see what I mean? By their very nature, those who already left won't appear, or if they do, they'll type one complaint and then leave. On the other hand, those who stay playing but don't vocalize their support have day after day where they might appear in the forum. Essentially, they're more likely to appear than those who aren't playing at all. I don't even know why this point would be debated.Tribunate wrote:
Yes I understand this point. Following the same logic, a lot of people don't go to the forum to voice their support either.
I’m sorry I’m done with this thread I’m totally tripping.
Abusing the term literally. I haven't done a poll but my understanding is that most players play video games to relax... not to be stressed out. I don't know where the disconnect is here?MZM7 wrote:
You're literally one player who finds this game relaxing, yet you seem to be using yourself as refutation of Raposa's whole suggestion, which wouldn't even affect you.About taking a break: You're literally making our point for us. Players who get exhausted from this game take breaks, or really just leave altogether. Not only that, but dedicated players like Raposa are also being turned away by this aspect. Yes, it is just a game, so perhaps it shouldn't be so demanding to some players.
I still don't understand the demanding of this game, this isn't a full time job and no stats suggest the game is losing players (there are tons of threads on this where developers go into more detail)
I wasn't making your point at all, literally or figuratively. What I was saying is that if you put too much in a video game, than this may be a personal issue, not a game issue?
close this thread Ok
I think this is a great point. I love this game, but have only played a couple of times since i first found the game about 6 months ago. I would play a game every week, if i could. But i can't. Why? Because I have a full time job and i need to get a decent amount of sleep at night. Because of this, I really can't play very often. Only times I can play are when I am on vacation or if there is a fast speed game, and I take a 3 day weekend.
When i do play, I put a lot of time and effort into the game, so i don't want to loose, just because someone attacked me when i was sleeping. When I play, at night, I end up setting my alarm so that I wake up every 2-3 hours to see if anyone is attacking me.
Couple of things to point out:
a. In a real war, you would have a few soldiers stay up all night and watch for trouble. If trouble arrives, they can wake everyone up and get the troops will be ready to defend within 2 minutes. If someone attacks me in this game, nobody is going to wake me up and tell me and I won't know anything until it is too late.
b. this is not a real war anyway...so not everything in this game has to replicate real war conditions anyway.
c. planes are a huge part of the game. Planes are fairly close to being useless when you are sleeping. And if the enemy has ranged units, they can absolutely crush me when i am sleeping. For these reasons, it is nothing even close to a fair fight when someone gets attacked while they are sleeping and their entire game ends up being wasted.
Possible solutions: I am sure other people have better ideas, but here is what comes to my mind:
a. have an 8 hour down-time once every 24 hours, where the game stops completely. People can join a game based upon when they want their 8 hour down time to be, every day.
oh, i gotta go....more in a bit.
Ok, i had a work distraction...
another idea would be to have more 10X speed games. I know Bytro does not want to make these games available for players to start up, but it would be good if the 10X games were offered more often. I think a lot of people that work full time are fine with a game lasting 24 hours...or maybe even 48-72 hours....but they really have no ability to commit to a game that is going to take a week or two to play. I would guess that is the reason that 70% (or whatever the actual # is) of the players go inactive after a day or 2...they just can't commit to playing a game that is going to take that long to play.
Anyway, it is a terrific game, and i will continue playing as much as i can, but if there are things that can improve the game, so that people can work full-time jobs, not lose a bunch of sleep...and simultaneously, not lose because someone else attacked them while they were asleep....i would be all for that.
Mhm.. yes we all know most games are played with the goal of relaxation, but most games don't continue while you're asleep. Some players shrug this aspect off, but the doesn't mean that the same can be expected of all players, since being asleep does make you vulnerable, unlike most other games.Tribunate wrote:
Abusing the term literally. I haven't done a poll but my understanding is that most players play video games to relax... not to be stressed out. I don't know where the disconnect is here?
Point me to those threads, but do they know why so many players (especially with names like user293###) go inactive so frequently? Essentially, how do they get their data is what I'm asking, because there's a difference between seeing a sharp dip in players after some update, and not getting certain players in the first place because of something that has been part of the game since the beginning.Tribunate wrote:
I still don't understand the demanding of this game, this isn't a full time job and no stats suggest the game is losing players (there are tons of threads on this where developers go into more detail)
Sure, there is a personal and game side to this, as with most things part of the responsibility falls on the person using it in excess. The issue is once again, the sleep. I've already explained before that this is the type of game where being active is one of the biggest factors in achieving victory. This means that from a competitive standpoint, sleeping puts you at a disadvantage. Generally, the point of a game is to win, especially if you've invested weeks into a match. Call of War gives the competitive advantage to those who play without sleeping, which puts stress on them, and other players. Therefore, although it's somewhat of a personal issue, the game incentivizes you to be active 24/7. Much of the responsibility must fall on the game as well.Tribunate wrote:
I wasn't making your point at all, literally or figuratively. What I was saying is that if you put too much in a video game, than this may be a personal issue, not a game issue?
I mentioned things earlier like shoot-n-scoot which was never addressed at all. And of course lack of sleep can cause players to make some poor decisions, but the advantage of being active definitely outweighs that I'm sure.
I understand your point but I still believe it's a personal issue. The game is known as a grand strategy game. Be defensive before you go to sleep. Most of my alliance doesn't care and we'll take 9-10 hours to sleep. You have to put yourself in rea life first and foremost or you end up getting sick.
Though, as a compromise, I like that this could be an addition to a custom game type eventually which I had suggested a lot time ago: Sandbox Mode - Suggestions / Criticism - Call of War- Forum
That, I could be on board with and support. Before that is every accepted though you can make an alliance game still or if you have high command you can create a game and get everyone to agree to these settings.
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