I think the penalties for not rebuilding a lost Capital need to be increased. I say this as I have seen players and AI lose a Capital and never rebuild one. Currently I am in a game where France lost Paris to the UK and the UK then lost London to France. Paris was lost on Day 2 and it is almost Day 7 now an no sign of a new Capital. The UK lost London on Day 3 and still no sign of a new Capital. Current morale for France is 27 but in the core area it is still above the point of revolt. UK morale is currently 58 and his core is all above 60. I am not suggesting that if you lose you Capital that you must immediately rebuild it but within 24 hours of losing it a Capitol must be started or face increasing cumulative penalties until it is completed. Completed as many players would try to game the system as they are currently doing. Also if no Capital exist then the bonus from building Propaganda Offices should go away after 24 hours. No Capital means no government to operate the machinery of providing Propaganda to the masses of citizenry. After 24 hours of no Capital, no additional units can be created. Also a reduction in resources should start to take effect, 1 would suggest at least 10% per day to start, this would be because there is no government to collect the taxes.
As for why AI nations do not rebuild is in a way a question for another post but I think it should be addressed now as well. An AI nation should have 48 hours before a new Capital is built. With the same penalties applied to it as the human player.
"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the later than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte "Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success." ~ Erwin Rommel
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63 Replies
16 Sept 2022, 22:34
K.Rokossovski wrote:
UN doesn't decide who is a country and who is not. People do. Their capital (or the rest of their country) may be occupied, and that's very bad for any war effort, but they're still a country, no matter what the international community thinks is convenient to decide at any given point in time. Do you really think that Taiwan is not a country? UN says it isn't. Do you think Belarus is a country? UN says it is. Just politics.
Not quite... the people are only a first small part of the process.
If it only were that simple then Palestine WOULD be a country.
Other countries decide weather they recognize your country's independence declaration. So as much as citizens of an area might want to declare themselves a country ( ie. Donbas Seperatists), until the rest/majority of the world recognizes it... you're just a bunch of rebels.
Belarus had the exact same opportunities as Ukraine. They went the "With Russia" route, as opposed to Ukraine which chose the "With EU" route.
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
17 Sept 2022, 04:40
Do you really not see the fault in your logic? Some random parti pris bureaucratic elitist club isn't the grand arbiter of what qualifies as a country or not.
17 Sept 2022, 05:08
If you want to come to MY party, is that enough...
Or are you at my party only AFTER I invite you in....
Same on the world stage... a people can want to be a country... that doesn't mean other nations will recognize them as such.
Just because you don't like, you're still outside asking to be let... but you're not in until the powers that be actually let you in.
Good, Bad or Ugly, that's how it works.
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
17 Sept 2022, 14:07
Recognition is only validation, not qualification. Control over a territory is.
17 Sept 2022, 19:19
Exactly... validation
Until such a time as a government becomes "Valid".... it would remain... what ... "invalid" ?
Now you're getting it.
An unrecognized govt would not be able to trade on international markets...
Would be unable to have diplomatic relationships with other countries (though given how France managed it's 177 troops to be included in D-Day operations... I'd conclude that they were able to maintain their existing coalitions)
I guess my question would be... give me an example of a country without an internationally recognized government During WWII...
Even today the only examples I can think of are Palestinian Authority and Taiwan. Can't think of anything even close to these two examples occurring in the 1939-45 era.
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
17 Sept 2022, 21:27 (edited)
OneNutSquirrel wrote:
SpoilerAn unrecognized govt would not be able to trade on international markets...
I guess my question would be... give me an example of a country without an internationally recognized government During WWII...
Even today the only examples I can think of are Palestinian Authority and Taiwan. Can't think of anything even close to these two examples occurring in the 1939-45 era.
I thought we were over this already. When the Soviet Union invaded Finland, they were kicked out of the League of Nations. By your definition that “unrecognized” them. They still traded on the international markets just fine. We can agree to disagree here. I regard the Soviet Union was a real nation during WWII.
another example would be the United States, which never joined the League of Nations, but was a real nation at this time.
You’re not totally wrong. There are competing theories in international relations. One says international recognition matters, one says it doesn’t. This is something even the “experts” don’t agree on.
Going back to Palestine, they are recognized by their Arab neighbors as a nation, which is probably good enough for them given their other problems. Since 1993, with the Olso agreement, Israel also recognizes Palistine. They certainly have a national identity and other countries recognize them informally even if they don’t recognize them formally. If an individual holding a passport issued by Palestine applies for a visa, will your country put a visa in that passport? Almost certainly yes. I think they informally recognize Palestine by doing so.
Another example is Korea. North Korea and South Korea both do not formally recognize each other. However, look at their defense budgets and military posture. Considering that they each regard each other as their most likely adversary, they certainly informally recognize each other. However, neither really have a separate national identity and both view themselves as the only legitimate government of Korea.
Again, you’re not wrong, but you stick to your criteria a little too rigidly and fail to see the obvious examples that undermines your logic.
18 Sept 2022, 01:56
Nah you're just arguing in bad faith. Validation is just acceptance, not that refusal in itself would change anything.
If you came out gay and your parents don't accept it, it doesn't mean your not gay, you still are, just not accepted.
18 Sept 2022, 02:20
LOL
This thread first touched on Palestine, and then on gay rights... just waiting for someone to bring up Trump before this turns into a complete debacle.
18 Sept 2022, 04:43
Lets not lose the forest through the trees.
Original post was on effects of Capitols and how they should affect the game.
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
18 Sept 2022, 09:19
z00mz00m wrote:
LOL
This thread first touched on Palestine, and then on gay rights... just waiting for someone to bring up Trump before this turns into a complete debacle.
Heh, I'll have that with two pints of climate change and a pinch of MeToo.
18 Sept 2022, 10:53
at one time capitals helped in troop healing, I guess somewhere along the line that was changed. I think a build penalty for both buildings and troops should be applied to those countries without capital, say add 100% to the time it takes to completion. It would certainly escalate its value t0 both the player and his opponents.
18 Sept 2022, 11:13
Ehh you started the whole "X isn't a Z because Y says so"
18 Sept 2022, 11:37
I will have a shot of what he is having.....
18 Sept 2022, 11:42
rdy2rocknroll wrote:
at one time capitals helped in troop healing, I guess somewhere along the line that was changed. I think a build penalty for both buildings and troops should be applied to those countries without capital, say add 100% to the time it takes to completion. It would certainly escalate its value t0 both the player and his opponents.
Hey, back to the original topic!
But these penalties are already included in the morale penalty for loosing your capital.
I don’t lose my capital often, so maybe I’m not the expert here. Last time it happened to me, it just so happened that my capital was my food city in a country without food at the province level so my entire country had virtually no morale. It was a long road to recovery for me that game.
18 Sept 2022, 13:25
good point
18 Sept 2022, 15:46
At this point I'd be curious to find out what the "Distance to Capitol" penalty is for any province when you've lost your capitol.
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
18 Sept 2022, 16:20 (edited)
OneNutSquirrel wrote:
At this point I'd be curious to find out what the "Distance to Capitol" penalty is for any province when you've lost your capitol.
If I remember correctly, the "Distance to Capital" penalty is replaced altogether by a penalty for not having a capital. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the value of it.
20 Sept 2022, 20:34
Distance to Capitol is still in effect.
You can find it when you hove over the "MORAL" banner on Territory info, most territories near the Capitol do not how the stat, but as soon as it get to 0.1 it is displayed.
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
20 Sept 2022, 23:43
OneNutSquirrel wrote:
Distance to Capitol is still in effect.
You can find it when you hove over the "MORAL" banner on Territory info, most territories near the Capitol do not how the stat, but as soon as it get to 0.1 it is displayed.
Interesting. Maybe they go by the location of your old capital. Anyway, I never claimed to be an expert on losing a capital, thanks for correcting me.
21 Sept 2022, 09:28
It's all good mate, I sure don't claim to know everything, otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to get whatever insights I can pull from you guys.
Lolz
Steel sharpens steel !
General Maximus Decimus Meridius - "Are you not entertained?"
