Cargo Ships, Trains, Naval Blockades, and Trade Rework

I like this idea alot, however what if an island has made a trade with a completely land nation, what would happen then? First the Island would send the resources in a cargo ship, but say it has to go through a neutral nation to get to the one it traded with? What would happen my guesses and suggestions would be... as follows i will also include more situations.

Situation 1:

a. Hawaii trades with Utah

b. North California Has Trade Embargo on Hawaii

c. Hawaii Cargo Ship sails over to South California Instead

d. Nevada has Trade Embargo on Utah

e. What happens then? Will the Hawaiian train be allowed to move through Nevada territory?

Situation 2:

a. Hawaii Trades with Utah

b. All states between are neutral

c. Does the Cargo Ship bring a train with it, because where does the train come from in an amphibious trade?

Does Utah provide the train, or does North California or the nearest country? Where does the Train and or Cargo Ship have to go, does it have to go to Utah's capitol, or the nearest province/city?

Situation 3:

a. France trades with Poland

b. Germany is at war with Poland

c. France and Germany are neutral

d. Can France choose to use a Cargo Ship or a Cargo train?

e. If France chooses Train and Germany attacks it, does it start a war, considering the fact that the resources are going to be in Poland's possession? If Germany does attack it does he get the surviving resources?

More Questions:

1. Who gets to control the Unit? The person giving the resource or the person receiving it?

2. Where do the trains/cargo/planes ships come from?

3. Can the Cargo Planes work on Aircraft carriers?

4. Can the Cargo Planes be escorted bye Interceptors?

5. Other I will have more questions soon/ situations.

Ok, I completely get where you're coming from, first though I will explain the last questions since they are shorter:

1. No one controls the unit, it just moves on the quickest route it can to the nearest province of the other nation, alternatively, the sender controls the unit

2. like passenger ships, we don't produce passenger ships but they are automatically made, this is because all nations need passenger ships, and I think that all nations would need cargo ships

3.No, Second World War cargo planes are too wide for aircraft carriers, I can see an operation Dolittle scenario but i don't think so

4. yes, just like any other aircraft

Now the harder ones;

if an island was to trade with a land nation, I could see it either transferring to a cargo plane, or the neutral nation would just let them through by default.

Situation 1.

either the train just doesn't move, it takes an alternate route, or it just stays there, but Nevada has an embargo on Utah's resources and trades, not Hawaiian ones, so the train would move through.

Situation 2.

the train belongs to the nation which it is inside of, they only need to deliver to the nearest province and the train will change every time it crosses a border, or you could say that whoever owns the train controls it; BUT the original nation could send/group troops to defend their cargo.

Situation 3.

It probably would start a war although this is controversial considering that the exact same thing is happening in Ukraine right now. I think that France should get a choice, but it is probably better if the trains main priority is to stay in an allied territory as long as possible, so probably by ship, so that they don't need to go through Germany, and yes, Germany would get the remaining supplies.

I hope that was useful,

Yes that was useful, however in situation 1, wouldn't Nevada want to stop Hawaii's trade because he has trade embargo or war possibly on Utah, to prevent him from getting resources? Yes this could start a war of their own between Nevada and Hawaii, but is that a smarter move?

Situation 4:

a. France Makes a trade with Poland

b. Germany is at war with France

c. Would Germany attack the cargo train on its way to Poland?

d. If so does that start a war with Poland?

- My reasoning for these questions is it would prevent France from possibly getting more resources, and allies by trading with Poland. Do you understand the idea?

Part of what I meant earlier, sorry for using bad wording, is where does the train come from after being a cargo ship, I mean the train can't just magically appear right? Would the Cargo ship have another cargo ship carrinng the train or what, someone please fill in, also if the Cargo Planes can work on Aircraft carriers isnt there really no point to the Cargo Ships? I mean aircraft carriers are decently fast, and planes are obviously a faster choice then a train, unless the cargo ships have really fast movement speed and same with Cargo Train super fast.

Sorry typo, Cargo Planes can't use aircraft carriers,

I'm not sure what you mean, but this is the improved version:

If a nation doesn't have to go through another nation to deliver resources, then it won't, it will only travel through a nation if it has to. If there is no way by land or sea then trade will be delivered by cargo plane, and that is the only time a cargo plane can be used (maybe)

ok cool, I LIke It, how much range does the Cargo Pane Have, I would guess alot so it doesnt have to use neutral land airstrips right?

yeah, probably the same as, or better than the strategic bomber

This has been a a recurring suggestion but it's fallen on deaf ears. The most impact this suggestion has had on the community was, "Bytro will have to completely rework the game and that's not possible." All I'm saying it sounds great but if your looking for a realistic war game with actual trading play HOI4 in the meantime, because you will be waiting for a while...

---I think we should also look at trade as having passive potential as well, see *bonus suggestion*

1. If trade was to be implemented it has to be extremely rewarding and not devastating, especially to new players otherwise the feature will become extremely niche. For this reason I have to disagree with letting players seize supply trades, as it would be unfair to landlocked nations who can have cargo so easily intercepted. Should the cargo get destroyed, the trade should be cancelled and resources returned or at the very least the trade should reset and go back to place of origin and try finding another way.

2. I also agree that trade should automatically find the quickest route using a combination of methods of railroads, supply conveys and cargo planes that would convert (given the right infrastructure is in place ie airfields to convert planes and infrastructure upgrade for trains). However, I think you should make it clear that if a country embargos you, you cannot pass through their territory with trade routes, meaning the game would have to calculate another longer route. (This embargo can be passed by transport planes, if you have a takeoff site and a landing site in range though ie Berlin Airlift). Respectively if you embargo them your trade units will avoid that country entirely.

3. I reject the idea that attacks on trade units would automatically result in the declaration of war. I think if trade was to be implemented in this form, trade units and military interactions would be extremely common and the newspaper would get spammed with so much supprise attacks/declaration of war. I don't think one remote submarine in the pacific should start an entire war by sinking one merchant ship. This should be a decision left to the player, "ok he's really annoying me cutting of my trade routes, I should do some planning and prepare for war."

*Bonus suggestion* Should a trade unit safely pass through a country's territory, that country should receive a small cash bonus from the game (maybe $250), this would encourage players to facilitate trade with neutral countries, and also build up their infrastructure so they would have the fastest route and more trade routes would go through their country.

I think it would be really cool if they added a new diplomatic relationship of 'partners in trade'. This relationship would sit between peace and right of way. It would create automatic routes to the trade partner where both countries would send trade units that deliver once every so often that would give randomly a resource for the cost of money. Ie trade unit makes it to the country you automatically receive 250 oil, but lose $500 from the game. Next time it could be 250 rare metal and you lose $500. And maybe you could make it more country specific, ie if the receiving country owns more oil provinces, then there is a greater chance that oil would be received by the sender.

This completely doesn't fit the flow of the game. Trade today is more like "I need 500 oil NOW to start some build, so I buy it and get it and start my build immediately", not needing to set up complicated stuff looking days ahead for stuff you might need by then. While I agree it would add more value to naval play which is sorely needed, but lets be honest, how many players have that kind of depth in their play, knowing now what they will need in a day or two? Lets take the guys who spam heavy tanks without any idea how to defend against attack bombers for reference... THEY are the player base and THEY wouldn't get to base one on this.

Nadda wrote:

....

I think it would be really cool if they added a new diplomatic relationship of 'partners in trade'. This relationship would sit between peace and right of way. It would create automatic routes to the trade partner where both countries would send trade units that deliver once every so often that would give randomly a resource for the cost of money. Ie trade unit makes it to the country you automatically receive 250 oil, but lose $500 from the game. Next time it could be 250 rare metal and you lose $500. And maybe you could make it more country specific, ie if the receiving country owns more oil provinces, then there is a greater chance that oil would be received by the sender.

To really do it per graphics, etc. ... it is just too deep, too much and a lot of work.

Naval Blockades!

Yes!

Tried before with great fanfare,

resulting in massive unintentional warfare,

including many IA vs AI ship sinkings.

Trains could also speed up trope move meant

I think this would be really helpful, especially for HWW (and roleplay maybe) since Japan could finally have a winning chance against China, since China wouldn't be able to ally with any foreign powers to protect them from Japan, and the blockades would ensure China was isolated from the rest of the world (excepting the Soviets). Maybe cargo ships could be outfitted (as a later upgrade) to become blockade runners. Dunno if its realistic for them to have stealth capabilities, but maybe who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Zaktty wrote:

It's a big suggestion, to be made over a long course of time.

Cargo Ships

I think, that like transport ships there should be cargo ships, when you make a trade or use the stock market, it automatically sends cargo ships to that location, where they deliver the goods, also like passenger ships they would be likely gunned but could be escorted, and I think that its unrealistic to have supplies arrive instantly, they would also have to refill on certain maps at docks or harbors, that way the trade embargo would be a lot more punishing

Trains

to not make it super hard for island nations if cargo ships were added, a train would be the ground equivalent, they can go faster if you build infrastructure (basically train tracks) and they can improve moraleI've thought about this a fair bit myself, and consequently have a few suggestions. No cargo planes though, as IRL their capacity is negligible.

Ships should be an extension of the transport ship, upgrading with it and not constructable. Maybe each carries 1,000 tonnes. Land transport could be like the aircraft lorry.

Would also be juicy submarine food, if the U-boats in WWI & II were anything to go by.

didnt even have to read the post, the title tells me enough that its a terrible idea, no, keep your HoI out of my CoW

DecendedDemon wrote:

didnt even have to read the post, the title tells me enough that its a terrible idea, no, keep your HoI out of my CoW

Zaktty wrote:

Not going to reflect well on you if you don't even read suggestions before commenting.

Zaktty wrote:

It's a big suggestion, to be made over a long course of time.

Cargo Ships

I think, that like transport ships there should be cargo ships, when you make a trade or use the stock market, it automatically sends cargo ships to that location, where they deliver the goods, also like passenger ships they would be likely gunned but could be escorted, and I think that its unrealistic to have supplies arrive instantly, they would also have to refill on certain maps at docks or harbors, that way the trade embargo would be a lot more punishing

Trains

to not make it super hard for island nations if cargo ships were added, a train would be the ground equivalent, they can go faster if you build infrastructure (basically train tracks) and they can improve morale

Naval Blockades

either caused by blocking the routes for cargo ships, or a new command for ships, to blockade another ship

Trade Rework

I see a lot of this, make it so that countries only have resources that they actually have in real life, conlits to so many (especially Merk11)

Please feel free to add suggestions, and to criticize, maybe we could even have cargo planes?

Representation of trains, cargo ships and other kinds of operations done by civilian population would create opportunity for harming civilians and as this game is going hard against any kinds of war crimes your suggestion have a huge flaw.

I understand why you suggested this but you need to understand that anything that isn't connected to warfare will not be included in this game.

And for naval blockade you have command option "agressive" that will engage with any unit that comes in it's reach, and if you warn everyone in the news that you are blocking ,let's say, Suaz canal, then you have your blockade.

Suna232 wrote:

Zaktty wrote:

It's a big suggestion, to be made over a long course of time.

Cargo Ships

I think, that like transport ships there should be cargo ships, when you make a trade or use the stock market, it automatically sends cargo ships to that location, where they deliver the goods, also like passenger ships they would be likely gunned but could be escorted, and I think that its unrealistic to have supplies arrive instantly, they would also have to refill on certain maps at docks or harbors, that way the trade embargo would be a lot more punishing

Trains

to not make it super hard for island nations if cargo ships were added, a train would be the ground equivalent, they can go faster if you build infrastructure (basically train tracks) and they can improve morale

Naval Blockades

either caused by blocking the routes for cargo ships, or a new command for ships, to blockade another ship

Trade Rework

I see a lot of this, make it so that countries only have resources that they actually have in real life, conlits to so many (especially Merk11)

Please feel free to add suggestions, and to criticize, maybe we could even have cargo planes?

This game, eve tho it's realistic, it is only realistic when it comes to warfare.Representation of trains, cargo ships and other kinds of operations done by civilian population would create opportunity for harming civilians and as this game is going hard against any kinds of war crimes your suggestion have a huge flaw.

I understand why you suggested this but you need to understand that anything that isn't connected to warfare will not be included in this game.

And for naval blockade you have command option "agressive" that will engage with any unit that comes in it's reach, and if you warn everyone in the news that you are blocking ,let's say, Suaz canal, then you have your blockade.

Even if country A does a Trade Embargo or chooses the command option "aggressive", it can't interfere with the trade of countries B and C.

In other words, what I hope developer to achieve is a situation which as a result of resources having nowhere to invest, excess inventories as containers or transport ships overflow the ports.

Other Discussions on Similar Theads - Supply Lines, Logistics, Merchant Marine, Transit of Goods and unit upkeep

Supply Lines (Suggestion April 2022)

Supply Lines (Suggestion Nov 2020)

Merchant Navy (Suggestion Jan 2017)

Military Logistics (Suggestion May 2015)

So clearly not a new Topic since it's been discussed in variously envisioned ways for most of the time CoW has existed.

I can't see a way that this topic will make it into the game in ANY iteration until it's SIMPLICITY in execution both in game play and game mechanics (program-ability) are laid out and until it's in game advantages are clear.

I can't see any sort of AI managed effect (controlling Cargo ships/trains/airplanes over the map) since it took almost a Decade to get any work done on current AI improvements.

This would need to be a PLAYER controlled (built and maintained) game mechanic with.

Current Game Mechanics

=====================

Units consume resources for upkeep - Automatic function

Trade done via market - Instant results - Goods removed from Seller transferred to Buyer immediately

Infrastructure Building Improvement - Increases speed of units moving through Province with improvement

Proposed Suggestions

==================

Warehouse Building - 5 Lvls - Each Level represents area affect from 200km +100km per Lvl up to 600km at Lvl 5

Warehouse MUST be in range of Capitol or another warehouse which is linked to capitol. Or A Port of greater or equal Lvl to Warehouse in range of Warehouse(s) linked to Capitol

Units outside of Area of effect do not heal and take an additional 20% damage (does not affect Air or Naval units)

I can't think of a simpler way to represent the need to be... "tethered" to home base supply lines.

Example

W for Warehouse

C for Capitol

P for Port

#1-5 for Level of Building

(i) - location in small Roman numerals

If you had this chain

(i)C - (ii)WC2 - (iii)PC3 - (iv)Oceans - (v)PC1 - (vi)WC3

Think of it as a pipe and the smallest diameter pipe determines how much water gets to the end...

In this case... all buildings are connected to Capitol

The (vi)WC3 will ONLY provide the benefit as a Lvl 1 Warehouse, because the lowest capacity building in the chain is the (iii)PC1 port on the receiving continent. Until ALL the links are upgraded, it can only function up to the capacity of the bottleneck.

Losing your Capitol... would hurt.