Engineers

First suggestion has been written many types, some people even included mines and similar structures, no sign of it being added soon though sadly.

having to maintain supply lines would certainly be a great addition, you can surround enemy troops (or cities) long enough to kill them slowly or force them to surrender

Engineers are an inherently built into the game but not as a unit. Who do you think builds Infrastructure, Air Bases, and Fortifications in the Buildings tab of the Construction Menu? In WWII the army's of the day didn't use civilian contractors in the quantities they do today. These tasks often fell to specialized engineer units. The game would become to granular with this addition. Engineers also constructed bridges or repaired bridges (add rivers to the map), level up your engineers to build a bridge capable of handling heavier tanks, each airbase would need an engineer unit attached to it to repair damage sustained in an air raid, build a road better have an engineer otherwise no upgrade. Want to speed up construction, use two engineers (replaces the gold spending method currently in place for adding a 2nd engineer unit).

So yes you have engineers, they just do not show up on the map.

I like the idea of supply rules, which would also address issues with stacks of units left over from conquered countries. Numerous threads on the subject of the killer sub stacks drifting at sea as well as other unit types from a long ago wiped out player.

I always thought the advent of computer wargaming would automatically include supply chains and logistics since it was such a PITA back when battles used card board counters and dice on a hex map.

Instead all that computer power is used for inane graphics that do nothing to improve the realism of the game.

Hang on a second.

"Hey!! You kids! Get off my grass!!!"

Where was I???

F. Marion wrote:

"Hey!! You kids! Get off my grass!!!"

"Hey, du, Kinder! Steige aus meinem Rasen!"

I'm sure my grammar is not perfect, but I think the German kids would get the idea.

MontanaBB wrote:

F. Marion wrote:

"Hey!! You kids! Get off my grass!!!"

Try this instead:

"Hey, du, Kinder! Steige aus meinem Rasen!"

I'm sure my grammar is not perfect, but I think the German kids would get the idea.

du=you

kinder=kids

steige=stay

aus=off/away

meinem=my

rasen=grass

I never studied german, but that was way too easy and obvious XD

Also it have absolutely nothing to do with engineers and mines

medhat_2000 wrote:

I never studied german, but that was way too easy and obvious XD

Also it have absolutely nothing to do with engineers and mines

It also has everything to do with the German 20- and 30-somethings who are responsible for writing and maintaining the software code that underlies your favorite online war game . . . .

"Hey!! You kids! Get off my grass!!!"

@Restrisiko: Are those kids REALLY the Bytro Labs software developers?

(The redhead/ginger bears a remarkable resemblance to Pippy Longstocking.)

Love the supply line idea.

I also expected it to take care of "command and control" issues.

Back in the day, some war games included "HQ" units. While it was nice to have a counter representing SHAEF running around europe "now I will go have some red wine and cheese in Paris", it was useless in the context of the game.

Then my brother and I ran across a special rule in a game of Squad Leader that essentially required the USSR infantry forces to stick close together and always have a leader with them. If this requirement was not met, the troops broke morale and ran. The rule had more details of course but what mattered is it forced the USSR forces to behave historically. Frustrating? Quite the opposite. Where before my German playing brother would destroy my USSR forces when I attempted to use them like he did his, now, the new rules forced me into massed infantry charges. Suddenly, the USSR was unstoppable.

Anyway, a requirement for a traceable path, through land / sea nodes that are not occupied or interdicted by enemy forces to a friendly city, would go a long way to stopping some unreasonable game mechanics. A given city can not be the supply point for more than 10% of your forces or 5 units, whichever is more. Failure to maintain this path would cost (just for a number) 10% morale a day. It would also cut all unit combat and movement values by 50% (another placeholder number).

Now those pirates in the sea won't last forever. Now that breakthrough of the lone AC that then runs the length of the board has some reality forced on it.

Done properly, the rule would not allow a supply line to traverse a sea node occupied by an enemy submarine. Now the Battle of the Atlantic has to happen.

This is the kind of stuff I expected computers to add to wargaming, not video clips of atomic bombs being dropped. Yeah that clip is fun the first time but after a while, not so much.

F. Marion wrote:

I also expected it to take care of "command and control" issues.

Back in the day, some war games included "HQ" units. While it was nice to have a counter representing SHAEF running around europe "now I will go have some red wine and cheese in Paris", it was useless in the context of the game.

Then my brother and I ran across a special rule in a game of Squad Leader that essentially required the USSR infantry forces to stick close together and always have a leader with them. If this requirement was not met, the troops broke morale and ran. The rule had more details of course but what mattered is it forced the USSR forces to behave historically. Frustrating? Quite the opposite. Where before my German playing brother would destroy my USSR forces when I attempted to use them like he did his, now, the new rules forced me into massed infantry charges. Suddenly, the USSR was unstoppable.

Anyway, a requirement for a traceable path, through land / sea nodes that are not occupied or interdicted by enemy forces to a friendly city, would go a long way to stopping some unreasonable game mechanics. A given city can not be the supply point for more than 10% of your forces or 5 units, whichever is more. Failure to maintain this path would cost (just for a number) 10% morale a day. It would also cut all unit combat and movement values by 50% (another placeholder number).

Now those pirates in the sea won't last forever. Now that breakthrough of the lone AC that then runs the length of the board has some reality forced on it.

Done properly, the rule would not allow a supply line to traverse a sea node occupied by an enemy submarine. Now the Battle of the Atlantic has to happen.

This is the kind of stuff I expected computers to add to wargaming, not video clips of atomic bombs being dropped. Yeah that clip is fun the first time but after a while, not so much

What I understood is that it's a board game, I love those

Squad Leader by Avalon Hill

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1035/squad-leader

FYI, there is a strong aftermarket on Ebay and Amazon for the old Avalon board games. I have a friend who cleans them up, makes sure all of the pieces are there, and repackages them. She routinely sells them for $40 to $75, depending on the particular game and edition. Some of the rare ones will sell for $100+.

Squad Leader actually came out as 4 releases. The first Squad Leader was basic Infantry tactics with some individual AFV's thrown in, later they upgraded rules and added more stuff in Cross of Iron, Crescendo of Doom and G.I. Anvil of Victory. They also released either two or four additional boards for those who wanted to create their own scenarios and have some different terrain to fight over. I still have my 4 games, don't remember if I ever bought the extra boards though.

MontanaBB wrote:

Squad Leader by Avalon Hill

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1035/squad-leader

FYI, there is a strong aftermarket on Ebay and Amazon for the old Avalon board games. I have a friend who cleans them up, makes sure all of the pieces are there, and repackages them. She routinely sells them for $40 to $75, depending on the particular game and edition. Some of the rare ones will sell for $100+.

I think that the supply line idea could be an option at the start of the game

@Medhat,

Montana and Peter nailed it. There is a reason I get along with those guys.

Sadly, Squad Leader is in my brother's closet, not mine. I got all the naval games. War At Sea, Victory in the Pacific, Submarine, Trireme and just a few more.

I might have an unhealthy attraction to the sea.

BTW, I will be beyond the edge of the net for a few weeks. If'n you all don't see me for a bit, no panics. We always come back.

War at Sea, wasn't that the board with just like 5 sea zones or something like that, and battleships like Hood=4-4-7, Bismarck=4-9-6? Loved that game, it was pretty simple for an AH game, but most of them died in complexity anyway...)))

Yes, most had 30 to 60 page rule books for complexity. However, when you consider how many Forum posts you have to read to understand COW, the 60 page rule book was much shorter.

Peter Mat wrote:

However, when you consider how many Forum posts you have to read to understand COW, the 60 page rule book was much shorter.

But I digress. . . .

Yes they were much better organized, but they also dealt with a lot of the trivia the computer takes care of. I still have all of mine, so if I really get ambitious some day I will catalog the game name, version and number of pages in the rule book. It should make a great forum post for you and I.