Also add, if not units, perhaps a time lapse (a few days times a distance factor or something) to set up a spy ring instead of it just popping up that instant.
2 Mar 2016, 19:36
Espionage
Its important but frustrating and I think part of the reason why is that it is just far too easy compared to real life.
I think a few things should be considered to make espionage more realistic.
1) Make spies a stealth unit and not just miraculously pay 15,000 to instantly have a spy half way around the world.
2) Research or infrastructure requirements. Every great spy ring had a massive intelligence organization behind it. Again it wasn't just pay 15,000 and get a top spy.
In relation to both points, this way spies/espionage units could be tiered. Lets face it, just like with units, not all spies/espionage outfits are equal. I shouldn't be able to, on day 40 with no previous espionage investment, put 10 spies overnight in 10 enemy cities and have those spies just as good as the guys who have been investing in it since day one. Not how it happened.
3) Limit the ability to do sabotage etc. This was mainly done by resistance groups in coordination with spies/espionage outfits if I am not mistaken. There wasn't a lot of James Bond-ery but rather a lot of local units with external assistance. Perhaps limit serious sabotage to territories with really low moral or non-core territories etc.
4) With all this spying, surely a nation would want more protection than just an counter-spy, no? How about the ability to research and/or just build secret police facilities in the cities you want to most protect? Like fortifications against espionage.
5) Curfews/martial law. If espionage is really bad in a center then surely a state could impose martial law or a curfew.... and obviously this would hurt moral and/or require troop units present
Anyways, this is not a "how to guide" but rather something to consider and perhaps get the ball rolling with many other providing other suggestions/improvements related to espionage. I just think it could massively be improved and expanded to be more realistic and not such an easy game change factor because you have a bunch of cash .
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11 Replies
3 Mar 2016, 17:48
It would be good if there were a few days time for spies to arrive, because in the first day, you can be spammed with a hundred spies and have literally all of your buildings destroyed... which is honestly not too favourable.
Le Dawdlepuss, the slowest one of all
"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing power, war is inevitable" -Albert Einstein
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -Winston Churchill
"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing power, war is inevitable" -Albert Einstein
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -Winston Churchill
4 Mar 2016, 18:53
The spies are an effective weapon, spies can reveal information of the enemy and damage the enemy infrastructure. Spies cost money, and if you want to avoid that you spy, put AntiSpy in your provinces.
A greeting.
"I came, I saw, I conquered" Written in a report to Rome 47 B.C., after conquering Pharnaces at Zela in Asia Minor in just five days; as quoted in Life of Caesar by Plutarch; reported to have been inscribed on one of the decorated wagons in the Pontic triumph, in Lives of the Twelve Caesars, Julius, by Suetonius.
"Alea iacta est" Gaius Julius Caesar.
5 Mar 2016, 20:10
Ya but the point is that the spy system is no way realistic and I just got the impression that this game really sought to be as accurate as possible.
I can't think of a single WW2 spy that got trained instantaneously and were able to travel the world in a split second whilst dealing with the barriers of war.
I do know that it could takes months if not years to properly train a Spy, certainly far longer than to train a militia member, yet in this game it takes half a day to train a militia in a city of millions yet I can have a top tier spy across the globe within seconds?
And the only defence a dictator has against espionage is another spy? Im sure the people of occupied Europe wish that was true but the fact is that catching spies was much easier than being a spy, especially when dealing in sabotage or sensitive information retreival....yet this game has it the exact opposite.
5 Mar 2016, 20:13
How were tanks for 1000 men made in ~1 day?BarryBwana wrote:
I can't think of a single WW2 spy that got trained instantaneously and were able to travel the world in a split second whilst dealing with the barriers of war.
5 Mar 2016, 20:36
Mass production. In 4 years the Americans alone built 49,324 Sherman tanks alone. Its actually one of the tipping factors of the war.
So 49,324/4 = 12,331 a year/12= 1028 a month/30 = about 34 tanks per day
Thats the beauty of mass production and why Germany's superior tanks couldnt keep up with the sure numbers and reliability of the American tank.
Ive been told a ingame day is roughly a week, so thats 238 tanks a week in real life calculations and Im sure that would require far more than 1000 men.
and Im not even saying the game is that accurate in that regard but atleast it can be justified as I just did.........where as I feel you cant with the espionage system, or to pose a question to you....
How was a spy trained and transported around the world in a split second when jets werent even in use yet?
It takes far longer to train and then transport a spy than it does to build a tank. It might not seem that way until you actually think about what becoming a legit spy entails.
I mean you could just pick a person and send them immediately, but they'd probably not survive a single day let alone get behind enemy lines, yet in this game.....
5 Mar 2016, 20:50
Ring up sleeper cells. Have you never played CoD BO?BarryBwana wrote:
How was a spy trained and transported around the world in a split second when jets werent even in use yet?
5 Mar 2016, 21:57
No I havent played that game, but ya thats what im getting at. You need stuff like sleeper cells etc but those you have to setup and that takes time and skill.
A country has never just been like "Oh, Im going to start trying espionage today" and then had an effective espionage system for intelligence and military/economic sabotage in every enemy capital/major city that same night or even week. Its just not possible aside from in this game right now. Good spy rings/sleeper cells/resistance groups etc take a lot of time and experience to run successfully (or a huge dose of good fortune).
I cant build top tier tanks without certain research and infrastructure, espionage should be the same way.
And there should be more defences against it as every nation had. Brits had a whole counter intelligence agency ditto the Americans, the Germans, the Russians etc. Then some also had a lot more of what we'd term a secret police. Even in America and Canada people of certain Asian decent were rounded up into camps for the duration of the war to protect against potential espionage and sabotage. If we are national dictators, surely we can do more to combat espionage than simply hiring a spy to find them.
6 Mar 2016, 13:26
I like to think of it as hiring a few spies to do your dirty work. To defend against spies, people would hire a kind of "Dad's Army" thing, explaining why they are so cheap as well as being able to cover a large area. Make sense too because I'm sure spies in the Sahara would be pretty recognisable to locals as not that many people would be just "passing through".BarryBwana wrote:
If we are national dictators, surely we can do more to combat espionage than simply hiring a spy to find them.
16 Apr 2016, 12:00
Moved to Suggestions/Criticism.
"I came, I saw, I conquered" Written in a report to Rome 47 B.C., after conquering Pharnaces at Zela in Asia Minor in just five days; as quoted in Life of Caesar by Plutarch; reported to have been inscribed on one of the decorated wagons in the Pontic triumph, in Lives of the Twelve Caesars, Julius, by Suetonius.
"Alea iacta est" Gaius Julius Caesar.
22 Apr 2016, 17:11
I like this idea! It would add some more realism to the game.
Carl Wilson
“Dad, how do soldiers killing each other solve the world's problems?”
― Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes: Sunday Pages 1985-1995: An Exhibition Catalogue
"Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: 'Do not march on Moscow'… Rule 2 is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China."
Bernard Law Montgomery, British general
“Dad, how do soldiers killing each other solve the world's problems?”
― Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes: Sunday Pages 1985-1995: An Exhibition Catalogue
"Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: 'Do not march on Moscow'… Rule 2 is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China."
Bernard Law Montgomery, British general
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