I feel like the game would be a lot more realistic, fun and exciting if resource production and research speed is increased. This is because in a real war with real countries, there would be a lot more units and a lot more types of units. However, right now by the mid-game, food and oil is basically negative even with all the resource producing provinces maxed out which really limits the amount of units you can build. In terms of research speed, since research takes so long most people only prioritize and using a couple of units, instead of researching/using all the units. For example I might go for destroyers and submarines and not both researching aircraft carriers and naval bombers because I do not have enough research to research all of them. The game would be a lot more exciting if countries are able to have a larger variety of units, just like in a real war. For example, battle groups in Nazi Germany would consist of Heavy Tanks in the front, light tanks and infantry behind it supporting it. Also heavy artillery, anti air guns, anti tank guns. Often times Air force would be supporting the army too. It is also highly unrealistic that a country in the real world would be maxed out at 200 units, when in real life wars are fought with thousands and thousands of units.The game would be a lot more fun if every country has more units by the mid-game, which will also make the game a lot more strategic since it takes a lot of planning to organize so many units. It is also laughable that provinces are maxed out so quickly ( level 3 infrastructure, level 5 industrial complex) when in real life you can continue to increase productivity in a province by build more infrastructure or research advancements. Resource Production will need to be increases in order to support a country with a larger army as the war goes on.
Suggestions: 1) Add ways to increase resource production, such as production penalty in captured provinces dropping over time or adding new buildings that can increase resource production. Possibly even adding research options that can increase research production.
2) Increase research speed or decrease time required for research to be complete.
TLDR:
Increase resource production and decrease the amount of time research takes.
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I chose "no for both"; because:
1) I've never had resource problems on any map. Who can't manage with ressources makes something wrong and will lose his map; that's the game.
2) If research were faster, there would be less to no different research strategies.
Apart from that there are some event maps and historical maps with already advanced research at the beginning.
Resource production should be increased, at least on several special events. This removes a huge barrier in mid-late game play and allows for a much more diverse game. Resource problems start occuring when one has over 700 units in a game, the economy is no longer self sufficient. Once oil becomes a problem the amount of options to one is greatly reduced.
This seems like a good thread to put forth a suggestion I have been lobbying for a long time.
First, let me say "No" on the faster research times. I think they are fine the way they are now.
And, increased resource production is also a "No", except for the 25 player. I know this map is supposed to be a challenge, and unbalanced as far as what country can do what, but the resources are just a little too scarce. I have played the map quite a bit, and I have seen the market go over 2 weeks with absolutely nothing offered for sale in the market, even though there were many AI countries surviving. The 25 player needs just a tweak to make it a little more fun to play. Even if we only increase goods for the map, that would make the map a lot more enjoyable. I know a lot of folks that just refuse to play it, because it is so slow moving, and it takes forever to build anything. Even for an experienced player, it just can't be done well, because there is nothing to work with.
I think that what he is suggesting is something like in hearts of iron 4. Where you can research increased production, things like that.
I disagree with both increased resource production and increased research speed.
That sentence:
is completely right, though!jesusnation wrote:
The game would be a lot more exciting if countries are able to have a larger variety of units, just like in a real war.
Has been discussed in other threads already (e.g. -- this one --). But that shouldn't be solved by speeding up research or by adding further research slots or similar. Instead, the costs or research duration of higher levels should be increased. This would give an incentive to first research level 1, 2 and maybe three of many units and only then to continue with the higher levels. Which nobody with a brain would do in the way the game is right now. But which would be both more realistic and more interesting / challenging from strategic point of view. Each time you have a free research slot, it would be an interesting decision whether you go for level 1 of a new unit or whether you upgrade your existing ones (more beneficial, but also more expensive, then). Whereas at the moment, you only decide at the beginning for approximately 10 units and then research and build them to the max... on autopilot... big boredom.
For example this way:
All level 1 research: -500 rare materials compared to now,
all level 2 research: unchanged,
all level 3 research: +500 rare materials compared to now,
all level 4 research: +1,000 rare materials compared to now
and so on...
Or if you prefer that:
All level 1 research: -20% research time compared to now,
all level 2 research: -10% research time compared to now,
all level 3 research: unchanged,
all level 4 research: +10% research time compared to now,
all level 5 research: +20% research time compared to now,
all level 6 research: +30% research time compared to now.
Of course the units in the secret weapons research tree would also have to be slightly adapted, so they neither profit nor suffer from the change.
An even better solution has been brought up by Xarus in the German forum: After you researched a new level, your existing units of that type shouldn't be automatically upgraded, but remain as they are.
There should be an option to upgrade to the new level when a unit is selected. But you'd have to pay some resources each time you do that (i.e. for each unit).
This would be the ideal solution, but would require a bit of programming. Also because SBDE calculation would then have to take into account all units of the respective type in the stack - regardless of their level.
Additionally, for the display to remain being well-arranged after selecting a stack (which might then often contain the same unit in different levels), it would have to be adapted. I could imagine something like this:
(example for one level 2 infantry and one level 4 infantry in this stack - little symbol on the upper right for level 2 is displayed as usual, whereas those for level 3&4 are shown half-transparent)
Sorry for the screenshots being in German.
For SBDE, units of the same type with differing levels currently have separate SBDE.
I know. As I said, that would have to be changed. Possibly not easily developed, I see.
Cough I don't think that CoW should be Hearts of Iron level of realism. This idea that you presented is in HoI4, where you can research an MP40, but it won't actually go to your men until you start producing it and then start issuing it out. Logistics is a b**ch
no,both research speed will make countries get nukes quicker
production is challenge and makes fun
no , upgrades are trainingsHans A. Pils wrote:
An even better solution has been brought up by Xarus in the German forum: After you researched a new level, your existing units of that type shouldn't be automatically upgraded, but remain as they are.There should be an option to upgrade to the new level when a unit is selected. But you'd have to pay some resources each time you do that (i.e. for each unit).
This would be the ideal solution, but would require a bit of programming. Also because SBDE calculation would then have to take into account all units of the respective type in the stack - regardless of their level.
Additionally, for the display to remain being well-arranged after selecting a stack (which might then often contain the same unit in different levels), it would have to be adapted. I could imagine something like this:
(example for one level 2 infantry and one level 4 infantry in this stack - little symbol on the upper right for level 2 is displayed as usual, whereas those for level 3&4 are shown half-transparent)
Sorry for the screenshots being in German.
So 3 weeks in a match when we start having armies of 100+ units you want us to have to go and individually select each unit to indicate if we want to upgrade it or not?
Hard pass on this no thanks
A "upgrade all" (units of respective type) button certainly wouldn't be hard to add. May be not even necessary, as you can select all units of respective type by doubleclicking one of them.
Apart from that, yes, I would like to leave the decision open for each unit individually. The more strategic decisions you face, the more interesting the game is. If you have 100 units, you have on average 10 of the type for which you just researched a new level. These are on average distributed over 3 stacks. Which makes 3 clicks for selecting each of these and an optional extra 3 clicks for upgrading them. Not that hard.
P.S.: No, I didn't steal the idea from Hearts of Iron - never played that.
Ok as no one wants to address the elephant in the room I'll do it. The problem with this idea you are leaving the door wide open for people to abuse tech stacking.
With the proposed method I can easily produce infantry chose to leave them at lvl1 (not activate upgrade option) and research lvl2 then build some lvl2 chose not to upgrade them and research lvl3 and so forth and tech stack them effectively making super stacks that are broken an I can do that with all my units not just infantry!
Thus under the current combat resolution system your idea cannot work as it would be way too broken. So your idea requires an entire revamp of how combat resolution is handled in regards to tech stacking. Doesn't sound that simple now does it?
What?
I think we are suggesting that you have a little bit longer, I don't really understand what 'Tech Stacking' is, because if you have the Lvl 1. Infantry that would just make it worse, So I don't see the point.
Tech Stacking is tech stacking, lvl 1 Infantry is stronger then lvl 3 Militia in none hill and forrest terrain, stronger then lvl 4 flak vs infantry, have 3 Times more HP then LVL 6 Artie. Also in some case of war is lvl 1 Infantry more usefull unit then other units.
Why should such stacks be broken? I really don't get the point.Kanaris wrote:
With the proposed method I can easily produce infantry chose to leave them at lvl1 (not activate upgrade option) and research lvl2 then build some lvl2 chose not to upgrade them and research lvl3 and so forth and tech stack them effectively making super stacks that are broken [...]
Stacks with units of same type but in different research levels already exist. They're not causing problems at all.
It is a problem because of the way damage is calculated. When a stack receives damage it is spread over all the unit types that are present in said stack.
Demonstrating the point with a simple example if my stack receives 50 points of damage and it contains 5 different unit types then each type of unit receives 10 points of damage. If it contains 10 different unit types then each type of unit receives 5 points of damage and so on.
Of course this is not totally accurate as there are other factors taken info account during the damage calculation but I kept it simple to demonstrate a point.
The point is that with tech stacking each different version of the infantry units I have lvl1 & lvl2 & lvl3 etc all count for different unit types effectively reducing the amount of damage taken per unit type even though technically I only have one unit type present being infantry.
Thats why tech stacking is broken and outlawed in PL games
Is that so?Kanaris wrote:
if my stack receives 50 points of damage and it contains 5 different unit types then each type of unit receives 10 points of damage
In my experience, if you have for example a stack containing 3 infantry and 1 militia, the infantry will receive 75% of the damage and the militia 25%. At least as an approximation.
Which is the way I would expect it to be - as it's natural/realistic. If however it's implemented the way Kanaris described it, I would consider that to be very wrong - should be changed, then.
Maybe somebody with a lot experience or knowledge about this question can enlighten us?
In my experience, Kanaris is wrong. It is not evenly distributed across unit types. The damage seems to be distributed against the full condition hit points of the unit type modified by the X factor.
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