So, I've finally gotten the last part of the blueprint for level 6 Mechanized Infantry. That sucks, though, since I REALLY needed the resources in the match that I'm in....and because I almost never build Mech Infantry.
The problem isn't that I don't want Mech Infantry. I think they're kinda cool. But they come in pretty late in a match, they are very expensive to build and maintain and they are largely useless by the time they become available.
"What do you mean? How are they useless?", you may ask. Well, think about it. By the time Mech Infantry become available to research, most matches have already settled into a smaller group of players. The trends are largely set and most people are rarely building Infantry anymore because of the Manpower requirements and Oil is scarce, so they're scrounging up what they can to keep building various tanks and aircraft. OK, so the Manpower needed for Mech Infantry isn't quite as high, but it's still high. So there's that. And the Oil requirement is an issue, so there's that, too.
Why is that important...about not being much Infantry being built? Because that's the Mech Infantry's main advantage, taking down regular Infantry. Why would you want to build a superweapon against a target that you can no longer find? Solution? Bulk up the Mech Infantry or make it available much sooner. While the Heavy Tank actually sees a fair amount of usage in late game matches, I only occasionally come across ANY player building Mech Infantries. They just aren't used.
Now, if they were given a boost against armored units, maybe people would build them more. I'm not saying they should be as strong as a Heavy Tank, or even as strong as a Medium Tank. But they should likely get almost as much strength as a Medium Tank and/or give them a huge AA advantage (something or another to make them worth building). Their speed isn't an issue, I think it's almost over-rated for speed and sacrificing a little speed to justify added AA or Tank-busting power might make sense. Another way to increase their usage? Perhaps lowering the maintenance a little bit, or letting it come in a week earlier will entice it's usage. Maybe let them be built faster?
I don't know what exactly is needed. This isn't my final proposal on the issue as I'd need to give it more thought. But I'd really like to hear what other people have to say about this. Surely something can be done to improve this seldom seen instrument of war. It has huge potential if it could just be tweaked a little to make it a more desirable unit in the mid-late game.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
Post a Reply
Please log in to post a reply.
20 Replies
1 Sept 2017, 06:19
If your enemy doesn't use mech infantry, it is an advantage to have a few. If you can only afford one, then build one. I use mech infantry in stacks mainly to attack and defend urban provinces. In urban provinces, armor hit points are cut in half. I don't need a lot of them since I use them this way. Even one mech infantry added to your stack against an urban province that doesn't have a mech infantry in it's stack can be a huge advantage. If you have one mech infantry in a stack, its damage has to go to zero before it gets killed. After a battle, i recommend letting the mech heal till its condition is highter than 79. I've had mech infantry take a defended province by itself. It was a nail biter though. I usually have it as part of the stack.
1 Sept 2017, 07:24
The problem with what you are suggesting is that I spend precious resources, time, and one of those only two available slots to research the technology for a unit that I will only build "one" of. That would seem to be a poor investment of those things.
Take nukes, for example. I don't just go through all that research with Strategic Bombers, Nuclear Plants, Nuclear Bombs, and the Nuke Bombers just to build one of them. When I reach nuclear stage, I build them as often as I can and I put them to work....usually to great effect.
If you are going to use a technology frequently, invest in it heavily. if you are going to use a technology intermittently, invest in it moderately. And if you are going to use a technology rarely, don't bother....unless the match is several months old and you've got nothing better to do.
Sorry to sound so negative. But this just had to be said.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
1 Sept 2017, 07:59
This is a typical case of "build the stuff you like". I like mech inf very much and I use them A LOT in all the longer games that I play. They are a sort of super-light tank, able to conquer huge lands quickly, AND also able to take cities in those areas more easily. Manpower usually isn't a problem anymore by then, so yeah, it has to compete with other priorities for oil, but I think it is very well worth it!
1 Sept 2017, 08:24
But you just made my point!
You don't research it and then not use it. You make it an integral part of your late game strategy. Kudos for you. Unfortunately, I've not encountered many players making more than a token amount of Mech Infantry. It would be interesting to see what you do with them. I'm not sure if we've played any games together outside the PL, but I don't remember seeing what you've described, before.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
1 Sept 2017, 18:11
Well, to be honest, i've only played around 4 school matches that lasted to get L1 Mech Infantry. I'd agree that by that time, oil and manpower is scarce, so I can't maintain even the most basic armored vehicles. I usually have to use a few battalions of infantry and militia. Mech infantry aren't really worth it, even if they do have that attack and defense bonus, most players simply can't afford the resources, because they have to give the supplies to a few squadrons of interceptors.
1 Sept 2017, 20:51
While Interceptors are very important, you can supplement them with AA. Don't ignore the research, get your AA teched up and you'll find that a few of them in a large stack can replace some of your Interceptors so that you can shunt some of that Oil into other units.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
1 Sept 2017, 22:04
Ah, okay, thank you for the tip!
1 Sept 2017, 22:06
No problem. Just remember, though, I said "supplement", not "replace. You can use less Interceptors this way, but not a lot less.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
2 Sept 2017, 05:39
I'm attacking an urban (city) province defended by LV 3 light tanks. My LV 3 mech infantry gets 20 hit points to his 10 hit points for his tank. Good bye tanks.
2 Sept 2017, 06:13
Lawrence Czl wrote:
I'm attacking an urban (city) province defended by LV 3 light tanks. My LV 3 mech infantry gets 20 hit points to his 10 hit points for his tank. Good bye tanks.
Actually, a level 3 Mech Infantry has an attack rating of 4 vs. armored units and a level 3 Light Tank normally has a defense rating of 4 vs. Infantry units. So, technically, you would be even in a forested or hilly terrain. However, because this is an urban province, you have more hit-points (the "20" in your statement) whereas he only has 10 hit-points (reduced by urban weakness) and he only has half the defense rating, so he's only a 2 compared to your 4. So, technically, in this case, you'd have a big advantage.
But, most experienced players don't use Light Tanks to defend urban provinces by themselves, especially by the time their competition has more advanced units. At best, they'd use them as a support unit for the stronger armored choices as well as for scouting purposes and quick land-grabs.
Frankly, you're talking overkill since a single level 2, 3, or 4 Motorized Infantry (15 hit-points and a "2" attack rating) would do the job against a level 3 Light Tank in this scenario and a level 4 or 5 regular Infantry can also win in this scenario (also 15 hit-points and "2" attack rating). Note that these multiple levels of Infantry and Motorized Infantry are available by the time the Level 3 Mech Infantry becomes available.
Admittedly, the Mech Infantry is likely to win almost every single time whereas the other units might lose on occasion what with the random number generator affecting overall outcome. But the Mech Infantry still a very expensive unit to do what you've described and that scenario is going to be rare indeed since the only players inexperienced enough to employ lone Light Tanks to defend their urban provinces have probably been eliminated by the time level 3 Mech Infantry become available.
Still, it would make for a fun battle, I suppose.
I am genuinely sorry to rain on your parade.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
2 Sept 2017, 06:26
I employ mech infantry in mixed stacks against cities better defended too. If you have one mech infantry in the stack, then it has to go to zero to get killed so you rarely need to replace this unit. If you count the replacement cost of replacing other infantry unit types, then it isn't so expensive. It also cost less manpower than a regular infantry unit to produce.
2 Sept 2017, 06:46
His tanks blitzed into a city and my counter attack cut them off from escaping.
2 Sept 2017, 16:06
Diabolical wrote:
level 3 Light Tank normally has a defense rating of 4 vs. Infantry units
That's true, but Mech Inf is is armor class not infantry. So LT3 get's 3(normal) or 1.5 in city.
3 Sept 2017, 00:29
If a city is only defended by infantry type units, the advantage of mech infantry in a stack is even greater. I now have LV 4 mech infantry which has attack of 8.8 against infantry armor types. In this game, I have lost 0 mech infantry so far. So I don't have the cost of replacing them. I am the 2nd strongest on the 22 player map and am streamrolling the 3rd strongest player. As I take provinces from number 3, my economy and military both get stronger. Most urban areas have ICs on them. I am up to 169 provinces to his 127 provinces.
4 Sept 2017, 13:44
Lets see Diabolical...I am inclined to both agree and disagree with you. It all depends on the map. Big maps? Big no-no because of the grain issue (not MP, which I have a trillion of by then). Smaller maps (especially 22p map)? Definitely! They are basically an improved Light Tank. 1 vs 1 they will win on all terrains except plains and their general cost is not much more. It only gets better if you keep upgrading them. Nice AA values too. If I am a grain heavy, iron poor country, I tend to go for them most of the time.
If anything, its the motor infs that do not get enough love.
4 Sept 2017, 18:57
DxC wrote:
Diabolical wrote:
level 3 Light Tank normally has a defense rating of 4 vs. Infantry units
That's true, but Mech Inf is is armor class not infantry. So LT3 get's 3(normal) or 1.5 in city.
Yeah, I'm foggy on that...aren't all Infantry group things considered Infantry class? And aren't all Armor group things considered Armor Class? Isn't that the point of the separate groupings? Otherwise, things like Anti-Tank Guns and AA should be in the Infantry Group and their tech requirements are screwed up.
Does anyone else see the conflict here?
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
4 Sept 2017, 19:06
It's well known that armor class doesn't necessarily correspond to which research tab the unit is in. Just look up the armor class in the units detailed info.
4 Sept 2017, 19:41
DxC wrote:
It's well known that armor class doesn't necessarily correspond to which research tab the unit is in. Just look up the armor class in the units detailed info.
Confusing, but true.
The easiest way to keep track of what is "armored" armor class, and what is "infantry" armor class, is whether the unit is motorized (self-propelled) or not. With the notable exception of motorized infantry, all other motorized ground units are "armored" armor class (i.e., armored cars, tanks, tank destroyers, SP artillery, SPAA, mechanized infantry). All non-motorized ground units are infantry class (i.e., infantry, commandos, militia, anti-tank, anti-aircraft, artillery, railroad guns) are "infantry" armor class.
4 Sept 2017, 20:19
It's more about how much metal is protecting the humans that are using the weapon than the weapon itself.
4 Sept 2017, 22:01
DxC wrote:
It's well known that armor class doesn't necessarily correspond to which research tab the unit is in. Just look up the armor class in the units detailed info.
Dang, you're right. I've not thought about that tiny little icon in ages. And, sure enough, only the Motorized Infantry is a wheeled Infantry unit, not armored, like the Mechanized unit.
However, the build order of the Infantry group does lend one to think that the Mechanized Infantry isn't armored class.
It IS needlessly confusing.
Frankly, the research menu and requirements should probably be revamped to make it more logical from a class-based standpoint. The classes in Conflict of Nations are much more divided and actually make sense in terms of what begats what....as for class within a class, if I remember correctly (it's been months since I've played it), the distinction between unit types is clearer in the detail information box.
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all. The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended. R.I.P. Snickers <3
It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all.
