Minor suggestion changes to German Research Tree

Nice suggestion, but I don't think the experimental vehicles that never reached production are a great choice.

Comrade_Ivan wrote:

Hello There

Being the major WW2 enthusiast I am, I couldn't help but notice some of the aesthetic things in the German research tree could be massively improved. While it wouldn't impact gameplay at all, I just feel the need to bring this up. I made another version of my suggestions for the Russian/Soviet Research Tree a few years ago, but I do not know what became of that. Anyways, without further ado, here are my proposed changes to the research tree:

ARMORED CARS:

1. Sd.Kfz 221 (currently designated this but incorrectly displays a captured Sd.Kfz 222 being examined by British Soldiers in North Africa)
2. Sd.Kfz 222 (currently Sd.Kfz. 231)
3. Sd.Kfz. 232 8-rad (currently Sd.Kfz. 234/2)
4. Sd.Kfz. 234/2 Puma (currently Sd.Kfz 234/4)

LIGHT TANKS:

1. Panzer I
2. Panzer II (currently Pz. 35(t))
3. Panzer II Luchs (currently Panzer II)
4. VK 16.02 Leopard (currently Panzer II Luchs)

MEDIUM TANKS:

1. Panzer III
2. Panzer IV
3. Panzer IV Ausf H or Panther (Currently Panther Ausf A)
4. Panther or Panther II (Currently Panther Ausf G)
5. E-50 (Currently Leopard 1)

HEAVY TANKS:

1. Tiger 1
2. Tiger II
3. E-75 or E-100 (currently Panzer VII "Maus", but is still a good choice)

TANK DESTROYERS:

1. Panzerjager 1
2. Marder 2
3. JagdPanzer IV (currently Hetzer)
4. JagdPanther (currently Elefant)
5. Jagdtiger or JagdPanzer E-100 (currently JagdTiger)

ANTI-TANK GUNS:

1. 3,7cm PaK 36
2. 5cm PaK 38
3. 7,5cm PaK 40
4. 8,8cm PaK 43
5. 12,8cm PaK 44

ARTILLERY: (Keep as is)

SELF PROPELLED ARTILLERY:

1. Sturmpanzer I Bison
2. Wespe (Currently Grille)
3. Hummel

ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUN: (Keep as is)

SELF PROPELLED ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUN:

1. Sd.Kfz.251/10 (currently Sd.Kfz. 10/4, though this is still a good choice as well)
2. FlakPanzer 1
3. FlakPanzer IV Wirbelwind (Currently Mobelwagen)
4. FlakPanzer IV Ostwind (though already depicted here, it's incorrectly called a "Wirbelwind")

INTERCEPTORS:

1. He 51
2. Bf 109
3. Bf 109 K-4 (currently Bf 110)
4. Fw 190
5. Ta 152 (currently Me 262)
6. Me 262 (currently He 162)

The game, for the most part, uses athetic models that were actually built and used in war.

I can not speak for the armored cars, but for all the other ones you've proposed changes to in the armored tree, a lot of them either did not exist, or were never built during the course of WWII. And you also have to remember that the last tiers are post-war tanks, and may not nessecarily follow what you think should go there.

Lets start with the light tanks. The Panzer VK 16.02 Leopard was a project that was abandoned. It did not meet requirements for the future and was, in general, incapable of performing the job it was needed for.

Now for the mediums. Panther Ausf A and Ausf G were variants of the Panther that were used quite a bit. The leopard was used extensively after the war, up into the 1970's. This is in stark contrast to the Panther II and E 50, which never got into production and never saw any combat, much less into the prototype stage!

Same can be said for the E-100, E-75, and the E-100 JagdPanzer. Tanks which were planned, but never entered prototype or production stage. The Jagdpanther is a valid point, though.

NovaTopaz wrote:

The Jagdpanther is a valid point, though.

NovaTopaz wrote:

Comrade_Ivan wrote:

Hello There

Being the major WW2 enthusiast I am, I couldn't help but notice some of the aesthetic things in the German research tree could be massively improved. While it wouldn't impact gameplay at all, I just feel the need to bring this up. I made another version of my suggestions for the Russian/Soviet Research Tree a few years ago, but I do not know what became of that. Anyways, without further ado, here are my proposed changes to the research tree:

ARMORED CARS:

1. Sd.Kfz 221 (currently designated this but incorrectly displays a captured Sd.Kfz 222 being examined by British Soldiers in North Africa)
2. Sd.Kfz 222 (currently Sd.Kfz. 231)
3. Sd.Kfz. 232 8-rad (currently Sd.Kfz. 234/2)
4. Sd.Kfz. 234/2 Puma (currently Sd.Kfz 234/4)

LIGHT TANKS:

1. Panzer I
2. Panzer II (currently Pz. 35(t))
3. Panzer II Luchs (currently Panzer II)
4. VK 16.02 Leopard (currently Panzer II Luchs)

MEDIUM TANKS:

1. Panzer III
2. Panzer IV
3. Panzer IV Ausf H or Panther (Currently Panther Ausf A)
4. Panther or Panther II (Currently Panther Ausf G)
5. E-50 (Currently Leopard 1)

HEAVY TANKS:

1. Tiger 1
2. Tiger II
3. E-75 or E-100 (currently Panzer VII "Maus", but is still a good choice)

TANK DESTROYERS:

1. Panzerjager 1
2. Marder 2
3. JagdPanzer IV (currently Hetzer)
4. JagdPanther (currently Elefant)
5. Jagdtiger or JagdPanzer E-100 (currently JagdTiger)

ANTI-TANK GUNS:

1. 3,7cm PaK 36
2. 5cm PaK 38
3. 7,5cm PaK 40
4. 8,8cm PaK 43
5. 12,8cm PaK 44

ARTILLERY: (Keep as is)

SELF PROPELLED ARTILLERY:

1. Sturmpanzer I Bison
2. Wespe (Currently Grille)
3. Hummel

ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUN: (Keep as is)

SELF PROPELLED ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUN:

1. Sd.Kfz.251/10 (currently Sd.Kfz. 10/4, though this is still a good choice as well)
2. FlakPanzer 1
3. FlakPanzer IV Wirbelwind (Currently Mobelwagen)
4. FlakPanzer IV Ostwind (though already depicted here, it's incorrectly called a "Wirbelwind")

INTERCEPTORS:

1. He 51
2. Bf 109
3. Bf 109 K-4 (currently Bf 110)
4. Fw 190
5. Ta 152 (currently Me 262)
6. Me 262 (currently He 162)

... It seems like you've played a bit too much WoT...

The game, for the most part, uses athetic models that were actually built and used in war.

I can not speak for the armored cars, but for all the other ones you've proposed changes to in the armored tree, a lot of them either did not exist, or were never built during the course of WWII. And you also have to remember that the last tiers are post-war tanks, and may not nessecarily follow what you think should go there.

Lets start with the light tanks. The Panzer VK 16.02 Leopard was a project that was abandoned. It did not meet requirements for the future and was, in general, incapable of performing the job it was needed for.

Now for the mediums. Panther Ausf A and Ausf G were variants of the Panther that were used quite a bit. The leopard was used extensively after the war, up into the 1970's. This is in stark contrast to the Panther II and E 50, which never got into production and never saw any combat, much less into the prototype stage!

Same can be said for the E-100, E-75, and the E-100 JagdPanzer. Tanks which were planned, but never entered prototype or production stage. The Jagdpanther is a valid point, though.

The Leopard 1 was originally a West German/French/Italian development project in 1964, which imo is a huge disparity when you compare the other trees. The T-55 (the last in the Soviet tree) entered service in 1946, just 2 years after the T-44 (second to last)

The removal of the Pz 35(t) and Hetzer was suggested to keep the German tree "purely German"

As for the planned vehicles, I'd like to remind that the final German Battleship is the H-class, which never left the design board either

Comrade_Ivan wrote:

As for the planned vehicles, I'd like to remind that the final German Battleship is the H-class, which never left the design board either

I try not to take too seriously the named/pictured equipment, vehicles, ships and aircraft shown as representative of the major nations' units at each level of research. At best, the named/pictured examples are generally and roughly representative of the unit types at the given research levels. Several of the nations did not produce either the equipment type (e.g., Japan and Italy never produced any kind of heavy tank), or an advanced version of the type (e.g., Germany produced no battleships after 1941), and many of the advanced types depicted were either purely experimental or never produced at all. And I certainly don't think the game developers have ever taken any of this the least bit seriously ---- as best I can tell from old discussion threads, most of the research trees were actually compiled by ahandful of forum participants back in 2015, not the Bytro paid staff.

Hell, I'm still waiting for a simple correction/replacement of the L4 Destroyer photo in the American research tree, which purports to be a Fletcher-class destroyer, but is actually the USS Farragut (DD hull no. 348 in plain view), a ship produced 8 years before the USS Fletcher (DD hull no. 445) was launched. Like I said, I try not to take the examples too seriously.

Quasi-duck wrote:

Comrade_Ivan wrote:

As for the planned vehicles, I'd like to remind that the final German Battleship is the H-class, which never left the design board either

At least one of yours was a design that was turned down though.

MontanaBB wrote:

I try not to take too seriously the named/pictured equipment, vehicles, ships and aircraft shown as representative of the major nations' units at each level of research. At best, the named/pictured examples are generally and roughly representative of the unit types at the given research levels. Several of the nations did not produce either the equipment type (e.g., Japan and Italy never produced any kind of heavy tank), or an advanced version of the type (e.g., Germany produced no battleships after 1941), and many of the advanced types depicted were either purely experimental or never produced at all. And I certainly don't think the game developers have ever taken any of this the least bit seriously ---- as best I can tell from old discussion threads, most of the research trees were actually compiled by ahandful of forum participants back in 2015, not the Bytro paid staff.

Hell, I'm still waiting for a simple correction/replacement of the L4 Destroyer photo in the American research tree, which purports to be a Fletcher-class destroyer, but is actually the USS Farragut (DD hull no. 348 in plain view), a ship produced 8 years before the USS Fletcher (DD hull no. 445) was launched. Like I said, I try not to take the examples too seriously.

Comrade_Ivan wrote:

I also considered adding the LeichTraktor or Pz III to it instead