Ryan, a lot of people (maybe most) abandon maps.
They quit when the game gets boring.
This is an issue for those of us who NEED to finish maps 
22 Jan 2021, 23:48
Morale is still an issue
Hi,
I previously in the CoW 1.5 feedback wrote a post relating to morale being a major issue (I was having 30+ revolts/day, and on speed rounds it just wasnt manageable).
Anyway since then propaganda offices have been introduced... but morale is still a massive, massive issue.
For example, I am playing a round at the moment, I am New South Wales. I have taken all of Oceania, all of East Asia and Im now working on West Asia pushing to Europe. As you can imagine, from New South Wales to Kazakhstan, my "Distance to Capital" is already at a penalty of -30.
With the new "Expansion" penalty, that is now at -21 aswell.
This combination, gives me a -51 penalty on every new province I take before I even start.
Obviously, now we have the neighbour penalty. Some provinces have 6-9 roads coming into them... a province on (100-51=49% morale) gives a -5 neighbour penalty. -5*6 = -30... so now many, many of my provinces have penalty of -30, -30, -21 = -81 morale. This means that even when I conquer newly taken provinces, they are already falling, with a high chance of revolt.
Obviously the new propaganda offices increase morale, level 1 = +10, level 2 = +23, level 3 = +40.
At 25% morale,
Level 1 takes 10.5 hours
Level 2 takes 21 hours
level 3 takes 1 day, 7.5 hours
Which means that in the first day, I can only build a level 1 - assuming there are at least 10.5 hours left until day change, which often there isnt.
This gives me a penalty of -71%
On the first day change, the morale is still at 25%, which means many of my newly taken provinces all revolt - including the ones building the propaganda offices. So now, I am back to square 1.
I have spent the last 5 days building nothing but propaganda offices and light tanks to hold the fort until more prop offices are built. Going by current speeds, I have at least another 5 days of building prop offices until I am stable. That is not fun, and needs to be fixed. Furthermore, my ally has been supplying me with resources to build prop offices - without his help, I would have lost many many provinces to revolt. My resource production (+/- 2.3k/day on WaW map) is not enough to keep up with the number I need to keep building prop offices anyway.
I would propose the following changes to fix this issue
- When propaganda offices are built, they instantly adjust the morale of a province (e.g. when built 25% becomes 35% immediately). This means the provinces in which propaganda offices are built, will not revolt, and gives me a chance at least to start building a morale cluster in new provinces before they start revolting
- Expansion and Distance to Capital penalties are capped at -20, but neighbour cap is increased to -40. The reason for this is because the -21 + -30 penalty is too much instantly, that it doesnt give me a chance to recover morale, so my neighbour bonus is instantly lower too, and its a downward spiral. IF however, this "immediate" penalty was only -40 (from 2x -20 caps on expansion and distance to capital) then on provinces with e.g. only 3 neighbours, the penalty will be -21 for neihbours on all newly-taken.. total penalty being -61 (worst case scenario) - which means all my smaller provinces, or those with less access will ALWAYS end up on at least 39% morale, and therefore will never drop low enough to revolt.
This in turn makes their neighbours (which may have 8 or 9 neighbours) have a reduced penalty and slowly go up
Long story short, it gives you a fighting chance of recovering morale on newly taken large empires without spending days on building nothing but propaganda offices and spamming level 1 troops to hold provinces until the prop offices are built.
....look at this, what a joke lol
https://gyazo.com/0478f5c974e2ff6603797fa2b45cf58e
This image below you can see my nice green morale coming up through ocenaia, papua, borneo etc. But following that, its just a mess, even in east china provinces which I took days ago, and are now at risk of revolt too. You can see I have experimented with a morale cluster around north india, but it doesnt spread far enough.
https://gyazo.com/66b13880cd78d9355627d8279c501437
I currently have 47 level 3 prop offices, 21 at level 2, 19 at level 1 and have had 0 resource spare (due to HC Queue) for the last 5 days. And from the picture, you can clearly see, I still have nowhere near enough to stabilise.
Post a Reply
Please log in to post a reply.
63 Replies
23 Jan 2021, 05:30
You don't need to actually build prop offices. Keep 2 militia... Maybe 3 in cities or strategically important places. Once if a rebellion causes loss of provinces, just recapture them and put the units previously placed in low morale places. Take down capitals of ai nations. If u are mexico, simple efforts can help u increase ur morale to 100%
23 Jan 2021, 19:05
What I don't understand is WHY you have morale problems... if you play right, you shouldn't.
"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin
Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!
Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!
23 Jan 2021, 23:22
If I were you, I would move your capital to a more centripetal area of your empire - say Bengaldesh - so that the "distance to capital" morale factor isn't so low.
24 Jan 2021, 06:20
U see this. THe war was 3 days ago... With france, italy, yugos, Germán Empire. Only me with light tanks and tank destroyers. This is the morale now.
24 Jan 2021, 11:51
Clearly you've never had a very large empire if that is your view.RBoi200 wrote:
What I don't understand is WHY you have morale problems... if you play right, you shouldn't.
Look at this:
https://gyazo.com/f91b4208bf7bfcfc4371287f69e75d16
The reason WHY is basic math...I've explained it twice already in detail.. but here we go again..
You have a morale bar as a percentage up to 100%.
As you expand, you get an expansion penalty of up to -30%
You also have a distance to capital penalty of up to -30%
@Andromeda, that is not helpful - if I move capital from A to B, then A has the penalty (which means my cores have the penalty, and my overall production would be significantly worse overall, bad advice) - there is no "middle" because my empire is so vast, that if I moved it to the middle i.e. A is one end, B middle, C other end, the distance from A to B and C to B is still the largest penalty.
100% - 30% - 30% = 40%
Rboi, this means the maximum morale any of my empire can have (past the point these penalties are both -30) is 40% morale.
When a province has 40% morale, it promotes a "-6%" to all of its neighbours.
Provinces have on average 4-5 neighbours.
This means all my provinces have, on average, another -24% to -30% Neighbour penalty.
100% -30% -30% -30% = 10%
This means the "Target Morale" for all my provinces is 10% morale, so the morale is always falling, see below:
https://gyazo.com/eebcc927e39550ec4914640633f154b8
On the pic above, you can see I have penalties of
-30% Distance to capital
-28% Expansion
-36% neighbour
Target Morale = 100% -30% -36% -28% = 6%
I also have a propaganda office going to level 2 in this province, so I have approximately +12% boost.
6% + 12% = 18%.
As you can see in the pic, the morale is 17% (close enough to 18% given the approximations)
That is why the "TREND" is "STABLE"
The issue is the "Chance of Uprising" i.e. the chance it will revolt.
In the first picture, you can clearly see all of the bright red provinces in my empire. That's approximately 400 provinces. This means on the next day change, I could have 400 provinces revolt.
It has taken 20 days to accumulate them all, I cannot simply "go round recapturing them" in 1 day again before the next day change.
I also cannot afford to spare 400 militia to sit in them all. (or, 800-1200 potentially)
If anyone does not understand the issue here, please read all 3 of my posts over and over until you do, because mathematically it is a huge issue for players who make it to the endgame. (Also, country has a large impact. If I was e.g. Kazakhstan, then I might be okay because my overall distance to capital and length of empire would be smaller. But as New South Wales, it means my empire is extremely long due to its natural placement)
24 Jan 2021, 12:04
Ah... Wait. First of all, shift ur CAPITAL. Is central america alive now? If yes, attack those capital cities.
24 Jan 2021, 12:07
Heck I have managed large empires and never had ANY sort of the problem you described, as many people on this thread have said. So I'm afraid, and I'm really sorry for being the one to break this to you, that it is something YOU are doing wrong. I still think it is in capital management (doing this correctly will mitigate neighbor effects as well), but the issue me and others have raised, as you do here yourself now as well, is that your own capital is too remote. You ARE aware that you can move it, and "be like Kazakhstan" as well, right? Why do you insist on keeping your capital in that remote place, if it might help solve your problem?ryanb96 wrote:
Clearly you've never had a very large empire if that is your view.RBoi200 wrote:
What I don't understand is WHY you have morale problems... if you play right, you shouldn't.(Also, country has a large impact. If I was e.g. Kazakhstan, then I might be okay because my overall distance to capital and length of empire would be smaller. But as New South Wales, it means my empire is extremely long due to its natural placement)
24 Jan 2021, 12:22
Like I explained, this will not solve the issue - and quite frankly will be extremely counter productive.K.Rokossovski wrote:
Heck I have managed large empires and never had ANY sort of the problem you described, as many people on this thread have said. So I'm afraid, and I'm really sorry for being the one to break this to you, that it is something YOU are doing wrong. I still think it is in capital management (doing this correctly will mitigate neighbor effects as well), but the issue me and others have raised, as you do here yourself now as well, is that your own capital is too remote. You ARE aware that you can move it, and "be like Kazakhstan" as well, right? Why do you insist on keeping your capital in that remote place, if it might help solve your problem?ryanb96 wrote:
Clearly you've never had a very large empire if that is your view.(Also, country has a large impact. If I was e.g. Kazakhstan, then I might be okay because my overall distance to capital and length of empire would be smaller. But as New South Wales, it means my empire is extremely long due to its natural placement)RBoi200 wrote:
What I don't understand is WHY you have morale problems... if you play right, you shouldn't.
Look:
My Capital is in New South Wales.
By the time I reach IndoChina, my distance to capital penalty is already at -30.
https://gyazo.com/0ecd5f09cd0282450b53f36c8f41d875
So YES, I COULD move my capital here. BUT if I did this, then all of my CORE provinces would sink to 10-20% morale due to the penalty. This would absolutely cripple my production of resources and cash, and troop production.
Not only that, but the distance to my frontline would STILL BE -30!
https://gyazo.com/1330cc2b7adc372daa5aa0482b72978f
This second pic shows my frontline at Russia from Tsari (Tibet/Indo area) - so sure, this would help my morale in central Asia, but it would destroy my morale in all of Borneo, Philippines, Sumatra, Australia, NZ etc. (where almost all of my high level industry is) - particularly my core provinces.. and the other end (my frontline) would still be just as bad anyway.
24 Jan 2021, 12:34
That's not true. If u shift ur capital to indo china, it won't affect morale/resources production in new south wales.
24 Jan 2021, 14:26
Of course it will - it already is dropping as I already have penalties (expansion) - if I shift the capital, it will get more penalties.YourGaurdian wrote:
That's not true. If u shift ur capital to indo china, it won't affect morale/resources production in new south wales.
Currently, all my core provinces morale is already starting to drop too due to the expansion penalty (Theyre currently all at 82% but will fall to 72% due to -28% expansion penalty, and my production is already dropping due to it. Production is directly related to morale. (e.g. in a CORE city at 100% morale, you get 12,000 production. If morale is 90%, its only 10,800 production etc.)
If I move the capital, they will then have a "Distance to capital" penalty of -30 also.
100-30-28 = 42%. My 12k production will become only 5,040 production/h - per city. Thats a huge drop!
24 Jan 2021, 14:29
Damn bro, u really played fast. I have also played and increased my lands. I have been china and attacked the Germans/ Americans and once the Africans too. I had large empires too. But I had never 70 or 65 morale at my cores.
24 Jan 2021, 18:52
Listen, I have provinces far away from my capital that have 100% morale. YOUR PRODUCTION will not drop. Morale does not work that way.ryanb96 wrote:
Of course it will - it already is dropping as I already have penalties (expansion) - if I shift the capital, it will get more penalties.YourGaurdian wrote:
That's not true. If u shift ur capital to indo china, it won't affect morale/resources production in new south wales.Currently, all my core provinces morale is already starting to drop too due to the expansion penalty (Theyre currently all at 82% but will fall to 72% due to -28% expansion penalty, and my production is already dropping due to it. Production is directly related to morale. (e.g. in a CORE city at 100% morale, you get 12,000 production. If morale is 90%, its only 10,800 production etc.)
If I move the capital, they will then have a "Distance to capital" penalty of -30 also.
100-30-28 = 42%. My 12k production will become only 5,040 production/h - per city. Thats a huge drop!
"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin
Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!
Found a bug or need help? Send a ticket here!
24 Jan 2021, 19:07
Clearly you are inexperienced and have never had 2k points in one game bro, because morale does work that way, and I've shown you pictures / evidence of it above. If you have a massive empire, you cannot maintain 100% morale due to expansion penalties, unless you build propaganda offices to level 3 for the +40%. Please don't comment again if you're not going to be helpful, I want devs to read and give feedback.RBoi200 wrote:
Listen, I have provinces far away from my capital that have 100% morale. YOUR PRODUCTION will not drop. Morale does not work that way.ryanb96 wrote:
Of course it will - it already is dropping as I already have penalties (expansion) - if I shift the capital, it will get more penalties.Currently, all my core provinces morale is already starting to drop too due to the expansion penalty (Theyre currently all at 82% but will fall to 72% due to -28% expansion penalty, and my production is already dropping due to it. Production is directly related to morale. (e.g. in a CORE city at 100% morale, you get 12,000 production. If morale is 90%, its only 10,800 production etc.)YourGaurdian wrote:
That's not true. If u shift ur capital to indo china, it won't affect morale/resources production in new south wales.If I move the capital, they will then have a "Distance to capital" penalty of -30 also.
100-30-28 = 42%. My 12k production will become only 5,040 production/h - per city. Thats a huge drop!
Im not looking for an argument, I'm looking for help!
25 Jan 2021, 00:53
Friendly reminder to be polite. I don't want to intervene, but I will if I have to.
25 Jan 2021, 00:58
Dang... That's a forum. U know what that means?
If u wanna have points and morale both, u need to be a little calm. Now here's a suggestion for future... If u play a longitudinal war/war over land mostly, don't go superfast. Capture cities ASA the day starts and defend them at day end. In this time, no city will be rebelled. Also the morale that was 25, now must be 32-35. Now if u are rich enough to build a prop office, ur morale the next day will be 45. Now if u capture provinces near u, the morale will rise a bit
25 Jan 2021, 10:42
Bro are you not reading my posts?YourGaurdian wrote:
Dang... That's a forum. U know what that means?If u wanna have points and morale both, u need to be a little calm. Now here's a suggestion for future... If u play a longitudinal war/war over land mostly, don't go superfast. Capture cities ASA the day starts and defend them at day end. In this time, no city will be rebelled. Also the morale that was 25, now must be 32-35. Now if u are rich enough to build a prop office, ur morale the next day will be 45. Now if u capture provinces near u, the morale will rise a bit
When you are big enough, you have morale penalties... So when you say "The morale that was 25 must now be 32-35" is wrong - instead it is 17-18 because it goes DOWN (not up) due to the penalties!
25 Jan 2021, 10:46
Sorry, but I'm becoming incredibly frustrated at people repeatedly just spewing nonsense like "just put troops in them" or "move capital" or "recapture them" or "don't move so fast" and not actually reading my posts to understand why that doesn't solve the problem, and the flaw in the morale system that needs a dev to look at and fix. Meanwhile, here's todays look at how much morale has fallen on the most recent day change:DoctorDR1 wrote:
Friendly reminder to be polite. I don't want to intervene, but I will if I have to.
https://gyazo.com/9152a7c172d923317c432b160e56bde4
As you can see, the penalties are killing me!
FYI: in the pic, the "red glowing provinces" mean they are now at chance of revolt
25 Jan 2021, 11:12
penalties are very very high, in such a downward trend how can one survive?
"In my humble opinion, on the subject matter, topic and content discussed beforehand; I would like to humbly propose, convey my idea on the subject and remark; this, with the help of the afforementioned post" - Karl von Krass
"The Golden Spire is looking for members, Anyone with good sense of game mechanics and a discord account can apply"
Secretary of Nova0213
"The Golden Spire is looking for members, Anyone with good sense of game mechanics and a discord account can apply"
Secretary of Nova0213
25 Jan 2021, 13:00
Dude. We're trying to help you. Many of us manage large empires; none of us have problems like you. You don't want to listen to suggestions, that's fine; but you might want to consider to stop shouting and blaming the whole world, then. One user's problem isn't going to move any developer from his butt, though.ryanb96 wrote:
Sorry, but I'm becoming incredibly frustrated at people repeatedly just spewing nonsense like "just put troops in them" or "move capital" or "recapture them" or "don't move so fast" and not actually reading my posts to understand why that doesn't solve the problem, and the flaw in the morale system that needs a dev to look at and fix. Meanwhile, here's todays look at how much morale has fallen on the most recent day change:DoctorDR1 wrote:
Friendly reminder to be polite. I don't want to intervene, but I will if I have to.https://gyazo.com/9152a7c172d923317c432b160e56bde4
As you can see, the penalties are killing me!
FYI: in the pic, the "red glowing provinces" mean they are now at chance of revolt
Post a Reply
Please log in to post a reply.
