Historically, in the WW2 era, "motorized" infantry would basically be an infantry unit, equipped with enough trucks to load everyone into and quickly move them to some critical point at the front, where they would unload and fight like regular infantry. They wouldn't drive onto the actual battlefield itself - in fact, that would be suicide. A truck is a very easy target for almost ALL firearms: rifles, machineguns, high-explosive shells can all take out a truck and those riding in it without too much trouble. In fact, lightly armed resistance/partisan units would make truck convoys a prime target for ambushes in their guerilla-style warfare, because during the transport, the trucks would be extremely vulnerable, no matter what superior firepower was travelling inside them. In general, the trucks would need to travel in a safe and cleared environment, and once arrived, they would unload to "become" infantry and use all kinds of common defensive infantry tactics, like "digging in", entrenching, etc. Their "extra" value compared to infantry would ONLY be the ability to be moved somewhere quickly, WITHIN already-conquered territory, and nothing else. They would be the ideal unit to be deployed quickly to DEFEND territory conquered by OTHER mobile units, as those units rushed on for further exploits, and the enemy rallied forces to attack their flank or breakout from pockets.
In CoW 1.5, their role is completely different. They can move with lightning speed through unscouted territory (often the lead unit of the troops), without worrying about ambushes, and when they find weaker kinds of opposition, they excel in attacking it, clearing passage, and moving on. Even armored cars (the only unit with comparable top speed) aren't as good as them at this, because those have reversed battle stats, favoring defense over offense. Motorized infantry is the uncrowned king of the quick exploit/breakthrough, conquering as much land as quickly as possible. In some magical way, they can utilize their superior truck-road speed when advancing into enemy territory. As if tanks and armored personnel carriers were just stupid to add armor and tracks to them; look, wheeled trucks can do a better job without them.
I would suggest dramatically changing the stats of motorized infantry in 1.5:
- reduce their speed to the level of medium tanks, to prevent them from leading the rushed attack, leaving that role for armored cars, light tanks and MECHANIZED infantry instead;
- Reverse the battle stats to favor defense over offense, much like ordinary infantry, and much like they were in 1.0
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Fully agree. Right now, motorized infantry makes armored car and light tanks useless, and foot infantry only kept for defensive operation. Mot. infantry is just so good, and unlike tanks there is no easy counter (read : AT) against them.
I don't think motorized infantry need a nerf or rethink their role, since their speed is the same of the armored cars (except with axis), and armored cars have better anti air capabilities so armored cars are a better infiltration unit.
Now I understand the idea of the correct use of their role in ww2. But since nobody use motorized in 1.0 from a gameplay perspective I think it's the best decision after all.
Now one last thing you can argue is the idea of concentration, and this work perfectly against the ia, ppl not to active or good enough, but someone who know how to use terrain and air force shouldn't be scared of this units.
Regular infantry defeat any equal motorized except in some especรญfic scenarios because the regular infantry have bonuses in more types of terrain, higher bonuses in urban, forest and mountain and the armored cars have a higher bonus on flat so motorized are not a big thread.
Personally i never use a lot of motorized except with the axis, when I use them is for increase the proportion of unarmored in my army for not get too hard counter with antitank, tank destroyer and attack bombers units.
However I think there it's a point with attack units in general and not specifically with motorized.
at least change motorized infantry graphics. ฤฐt can be military truckDanieliyoverde123 wrote:
I don't think motorized infantry need a nerf or rethink their role, since their speed is the same of the armored cars (except with axis), and armored cars have better anti air capabilities so armored cars are a better infiltration unit.Now I understand the idea of the correct use of their role in ww2. But since nobody use motorized in 1.0 from a gameplay perspective I think it's the best decision after all.
Now one last thing you can argue is the idea of concentration, and this work perfectly against the ia, ppl not to active or good enough, but someone who know how to use terrain and air force shouldn't be scared of this units.
Regular infantry defeat any equal motorized except in some especรญfic scenarios because the regular infantry have bonuses in more types of terrain, higher bonuses in urban, forest and mountain and the armored cars have a higher bonus on flat so motorized are not a big thread.
Personally i never use a lot of motorized except with the axis, when I use them is for increase the proportion of unarmored in my army for not get too hard counter with antitank, tank destroyer and attack bombers units.
However I think there it's a point with attack units in general and not specifically with motorized.
I agree with Rokossovski. However, I think we might create a unit with the same stat as Infantry, but only moves faster. Adjust its cost.K.Rokossovski wrote:
To add variety, less is often more.
Daniel, people don't use motorized in 1.0 becauseDanieliyoverde123 wrote:
Now I understand the idea of the correct use of their role in ww2. But since nobody use motorized in 1.0 from a gameplay perspective I think it's the best decision after all.
1) They require level 2 barracks, and barracks eat a lot of food.
2) Research auto promotes all existing units. People already have a lot of Infantry.
3) Rare Material is hard to come by in 1.0
Stats hardly matters.
I only use Motorized infantry in 1.0 in mountains where my Mechanized infantry has debuffs.
This was widely discussed during the first and second CoW1.5 Event.
We prefer the current balancing for the following reason:
- we try to differentiate the units as much as possible (while still trying to keep it historically authentic if possible).
- Having infantry stats with a bit higher top speed is not enough differentiation to warrant this being a separate unit, usage of the unit would severely drop.
- it adds gameplay variety and enables more different strategies because the use case is different.
- when reversing their stats there would not be an offensive focuses unarmored melee unit left, removing options for players who want to focus on barracks units.
- logical wise one could argue that the offensive stats represent the quick unloading at the front with less reaction time for the enemy as well as the increased possibility of driving around and flanking enemies.
In general the balancing and variety beat realism in this regard.
I'd say give them a different name then... like "motorcycle" or "reconnaisance", for example.freezy wrote:
This was widely discussed during the first and second CoW1.5 Event.We prefer the current balancing for the following reason:
- we try to differentiate the units as much as possible (while still trying to keep it historically authentic if possible).
- Having infantry stats with a bit higher top speed is not enough differentiation to warrant this being a separate unit, usage of the unit would severely drop.
- it adds gameplay variety and enables more different strategies because the use case is different.
- when reversing their stats there would not be an offensive focuses unarmored melee unit left, removing options for players who want to focus on barracks units.
- logical wise one could argue that the offensive stats represent the quick unloading at the front with less reaction time for the enemy as well as the increased possibility of driving around and flanking enemies.
In general the balancing and variety beat realism in this regard.
However... there are three quick-rush units in the game now: armored cars, mot.inf, and light tanks.
There is only one (slightly) fast-moving defensive unit, the tank destroyer (which only works against armor btw)
So moving from 3-1 to 2-2 may not be such a bad idea? I wasn't talking a BIT faster btw, walking to med.tank is actually quite a lot... and adjusting the mix of res cost might make the choice between inf and mot.inf lean towards mot anyway... maybe just some extra oil?
Well, Light Tank beats Motorized, though only due to higher HP - provided it can catch it.K.Rokossovski wrote:
I'd say give them a different name then... like "motorcycle" or "reconnaisance", for example.freezy wrote:
This was widely discussed during the first and second CoW1.5 Event.We prefer the current balancing for the following reason:
- we try to differentiate the units as much as possible (while still trying to keep it historically authentic if possible).
- Having infantry stats with a bit higher top speed is not enough differentiation to warrant this being a separate unit, usage of the unit would severely drop.
- it adds gameplay variety and enables more different strategies because the use case is different.
- when reversing their stats there would not be an offensive focuses unarmored melee unit left, removing options for players who want to focus on barracks units.
- logical wise one could argue that the offensive stats represent the quick unloading at the front with less reaction time for the enemy as well as the increased possibility of driving around and flanking enemies.
In general the balancing and variety beat realism in this regard.
However... there are three quick-rush units in the game now: armored cars, mot.inf, and light tanks.
There is only one (slightly) fast-moving defensive unit, the tank destroyer (which only works against armor btw)
So moving from 3-1 to 2-2 may not be such a bad idea? I wasn't talking a BIT faster btw, walking to med.tank is actually quite a lot... and adjusting the mix of res cost might make the choice between inf and mot.inf lean towards mot anyway... maybe just some extra oil?
But yeah overall I agree once again with you Ross. I don't see why we absolutely "need" to have a "stronger in attack" unit of all types, especially since the advantage of infantry is number (through price) and the advantage of motorized should be speed and thus its tactical positionning.
Currently, on ground, I feel like I only need Medium tanks and Motorized (so 1 hard armor 1 unarmored), + artillery and AA. I don't need defensive units, since :
1. If I am attacked by a defensive unit I can just attack myself to have an equal battle
2. If I am attacked by an offensive unit well, it is already balanced.
Therefore it becomes a matter of number, and for this I need to standardize my production as much as possible.
I also don't put units close to the borders but a bit deeper so I am sure I am always "on the attack"
Said otherwise, in 1.0 I was using all ground units except Heavy Tanks, though some units I used less than other (TD, Light Tanks except sometimes at the beginning, Mech Inf)
In 1.5, I am only using SP Arty, Motorized, Medium Tank and SPAA. At the very beginning I have infantry, arty and AA but as soon as I can phase them out I do.
We can level up the slower infantry while keeping the other primitive for quick production. Plus, units that are used less frequently does not imply that they are less important.freezy wrote:
This was widely discussed during the first and second CoW1.5 Event.- Having infantry stats with a bit higher top speed is not enough differentiation to warrant this being a separate unit, usage of the unit would severely drop.
The barracks build time and upkeep costs are what doomed the motorized and mechanized infantry in 1.0, not their stats.
Barracks and tank factories are so cheap in 1.5 that we can easily build whatever we need. Blitz attacks should be led by armor, consolidated by motorized infantry. Sending trucks filled with soldiers ahead of tanks is jarringly wrong. On many levels.
freezy wrote:
...- Having infantry stats with a bit higher top speed is not enough differentiation to warrant this being a separate unit, usage of the unit would severely drop.
...
You could add a Transformers unit or maybe Godzilla. I'm sure it would be very popular. Its "usage metrics" would be through the roof. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Is it possible to add unit type "with cammuflage" with buffs against units that have to disembark, like motorised infantry, convoys? this would make for example militia more viable, since it could be used to stop motorised infantry. Or instead of creating the whole new category for those units just give militia buffs against motorised
Was playing around with Motorized Infantry as Axis, and have to say it's a really fun unit.
There is a simple fix!
Rename the unit to "assault infantry" or "storm troopers" and it will make sense.
The name will match the behavior, instead of trying to change the behavior to match the name.
Armored Cars are defensive focused though, so you should count them rather on the side of fast-moving defensive units. In that regard it is already a 2-2 then. Since Armored Cars are good vs. Infantry defensively they also perform well together with Tank Destroyers to defend against most targets.K.Rokossovski wrote:
I'd say give them a different name then... like "motorcycle" or "reconnaisance", for example.However... there are three quick-rush units in the game now: armored cars, mot.inf, and light tanks.
There is only one (slightly) fast-moving defensive unit, the tank destroyer (which only works against armor btw)
So moving from 3-1 to 2-2 may not be such a bad idea? I wasn't talking a BIT faster btw, walking to med.tank is actually quite a lot... and adjusting the mix of res cost might make the choice between inf and mot.inf lean towards mot anyway... maybe just some extra oil?
Why the obsession with giving every branch an equal mix of offense/defense?
Make armor offensive. Who wants to spend oil on a defensive unit?
Make infantry (mostly) defensive except for some shock troops.
Motorized infantry is basically an assault infantry unit with super lame graphics that look like supply vehicles.
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