New mechanisms - encirclement and self-sabotage/pillaging and new building - hospital

I like the encirclement one, how about a blockade for coastal cities?

There is already a morale penalty for having enemy neighbors. Bad morale affects production, and eventually leads to revolt.

The hospital idea has been discussed to death. I think we should go in the opposite direction, and get rid of healing. A damaged unit should be rebuilt at a factory or barracks, and this should cost resources, not just time. A player should also be able to de-construct a unit, get resources back, and then use them to build something else.

z00mz00m wrote:

There is already a morale penalty for having enemy neighbors. Bad morale affects production, and eventually leads to revolt.

The hospital idea has been discussed to death. I think we should go in the opposite direction, and get rid of healing. A damaged unit should be rebuilt at a factory or barracks, and this should cost resources, not just time. A player should also be able to de-construct a unit, get resources back, and then use them to build something else.

soymex wrote:

z00mz00m wrote:

There is already a morale penalty for having enemy neighbors. Bad morale affects production, and eventually leads to revolt.

The hospital idea has been discussed to death. I think we should go in the opposite direction, and get rid of healing. A damaged unit should be rebuilt at a factory or barracks, and this should cost resources, not just time. A player should also be able to de-construct a unit, get resources back, and then use them to build something else.

I like the dissolve unit idea. Regarding the "rebuilding" one, don't units already take upkeep from our warehouse? I think that justifies in a way having to just wait time for it to heal.

There are several problems with this solution:

1. It's too slow. Units have to sit around (in your territory) day after day after day, picking up a few HP each day.

2. No control. I need my tank division in Germany. The rest of the world is fine, but I get a few HP everywhere.

3. Unrealistic. When half the tank division is used up, it doesn't just slowly come back like a grass field. It takes new tanks, newly trained drivers and gunners, new support units. This should cost something, it's not a nightly gift.

In summary, I want to control which units get rebuilt, and the place+speed+cost of the rebuild should be rooted in some kind of reality. Not free tank HP appearing in the middle of the Sahara, over a long period of tine. Armies don't magically get stronger when deployed. They get weaker as they wear out. Free nightly HP is a bad mechanic, in every way possible.

I do agree with you. But how can a hospital heal tanks? Hospital should be just for infantry and workshop should be for tanks and other armored units or motorized units.

I have been reading some of the replies here, and a lot of them make sense actually. I like the 'dismantling unit' idea, if no healing mechanism is added, this could be the method to get resources to build the factories and places needed to produce new troops. Alternatively, I thought of allowing troops having a repair button much like the upgrade one that allows people to use resources and a certain amount of time to repair their unit. Troops would need to be in a city with the appropriate building (e.g. tanks with tank plants, infantries with barracks or a hospital) for this to work, and higher upgraded buildings leads to less time needed for this 'healing' process. I am not too sure how this would work entirely, if the repair goes to the max, or only recovers a certain amount at the time (e.g. 20%, then there's a small cooldown), but it would make it the most realistic option.

soymex wrote:

I like the encirclement one, how about a blockade for coastal cities?

z00mz00m wrote:

There is already a morale penalty for having enemy neighbors. Bad morale affects production, and eventually leads to revolt.

The hospital idea has been discussed to death. I think we should go in the opposite direction, and get rid of healing. A damaged unit should be rebuilt at a factory or barracks, and this should cost resources, not just time. A player should also be able to de-construct a unit, get resources back, and then use them to build something else.

Javikoli2 wrote:

soymex wrote:

I like the encirclement one, how about a blockade for coastal cities?

Yeah I thought of that too, but I am not too sure how the criterion would work with this one, since it's a bit less clear than just having a city surrounded by hostile territory. Maybe if boats are directly attached to ports?

I don't think the complications that this introduces are worth the marginal utility or improvement in realism that we might see from it. Maybe tie the nightly regeneration rate to distance from the capital or something, which we already consider when looking at morale. But adding new buildings and new mechanics aren't worth the headache that could introduce.

Also worth noting that "nightly" is the IRL occurrence of these healings. I think from a simulation perspective, one day IRL is more like a month in-game, so paying the daily upkeep penalty and getting a slight boost in HP seems reasonable when considered over that timespan.

Javikoli2 wrote:

Hello,

I thought of two new mechanisms that could make this game more realistic as well as add some additional layers of complexity.

The first one is 'encirclement'. Right now, I am only thinking of applying this to landlock cities. The idea is that if a landlock city is only surrounded by hostile territory, they should lose extra moral everyday and the units present within it should also lose a certain % of HP everyday (nothing too major, maybe like 5-10%). This would prevent people from camping non-stop in cities with max fortification, and add a reason for them to try and find an exit. Production time could also be increased in encircled cities. Of course this idea can easily be modified one way or another, (what are the penalties, criterion to be considered 'encircled' and etc...) this is only an initial proposal.

The second one is self-sabotage and/or pillaging. This allows you to dismantle building in provinces to gather a bit of resources out of it (e.g. 25% of the initial amount used to build it). This can help you further ruin cities (effectively making the 'burning land' strategy real) before they are captured, and also gather resources from captured ones that you don't really care about. Of course this process should take some time to occur, with more upgraded buildings taking longer. Perhaps having troops around could also help speed up the process.

Finally, a new building that should be added is the hospital. I feel like this was maybe added at some point, I cannot seem to remember, but I feel like it would be really useful if it was be in the game now. Especially when you have armies that are really upgraded, and having no significant way to recover their HP is a bit annoying as you would need to produce more troops and make them travel a long way to replenish your lines. Much like infrastructures. air bases and etc..., higher level hospital help improve the recovery process (e.g. lvl.1 gives 5% extra HP everyday, lvl.2 10% and etc...).

Anyone else think those ideas could make the game better?

Thanks

I just want to discuss this comment:

1. Losing moral in that way would have no sense for anyone. On the first hand because if you are taking down an enemy country your trops will lose hp without fighting. Why should that be ok?

On the other hand because if you have talked to your neightbour to don't fight. So you can expand to one side and your neightbour to the other one. If this relationship is friendly or even neutral, why would the trops in that frontier lose hp just by keeping in your territory?

The provinces next to hostile territories already have a moral penalized. So I think this section is ok as it is right now. People who don't want to move from their inicial provincies are condemned to lose the game.

If you want reality, France in WWII tried to create bunkers and fortificate their lands and even with that lost against Germany.

2. I'm not totally agree with that because if you do sabotage, the citizens will get angry and will make a revolution. But maybe would be okay to can use another type of "spy" like a polititian to can increase the production of that province. Obviously with some ratios, like current spies work.

3. Finally, I'm totally agree with that new building and maybe could work like the fortifications. A hospital inside a city could reach a maximum of 10% bonification health (at max level) and a hospital outside a city could reach a maximum of 5% maybe.

And I want to add some more ideas:

4. Like in the old version, I think it was okay that a building have maintenance costs. That would make a bit more interesting the economy. And like it was, would be okay to can disable the building to don't consume more resources when it's not necessary.

5. Add an option to destroy a building. I think to support our mate comment of burning land, that would be okay to be implemented. Maybe with half time of destruction than building time.

6. I don't know if it was fixed in the new version. But I think it has no sense to can't use your teammates' aircraft carriers. So would be awsome to can use them.

7. This one is more to can check who in the game is a good player or not. In the last version it was easy to check just by clicking in "Diplomacy" and taking a look of the stats one by one. In the new version it's so annoying because you have to go one by one to see the current game stats (I don't think thats usefull but ok). To can see all the stats of the player (the most important data) we have to click one more option. That's annoying and confusing in a game of 30 people, imagine in a game of 100...

Would be awsome to set this part like the old version. Or would be perfect to can filter the stats in the diplomacy. Like filter by kills/deaths, conquered/lost provinces, player level, etc.

8. The last one is just to make easier to control more than one game at the same time. In last version, in PC when you select one game, this game was opened in a new tab. With that function you could have opened more than one game at a time. With the new version even clicing with the right click it's impossible to open the game in a new tab. So you can't open more than one game at a time. I think it was perfect like it was in previous version.

And that's all. I would like to know if you are agree or if you have some other ideas.

Thanks.

z00mz00m wrote:

There is already a morale penalty for having enemy neighbors. Bad morale affects production, and eventually leads to revolt.

The hospital idea has been discussed to death. I think we should go in the opposite direction, and get rid of healing. A damaged unit should be rebuilt at a factory or barracks, and this should cost resources, not just time. A player should also be able to de-construct a unit, get resources back, and then use them to build something else.

Magordito wrote:

Javikoli2 wrote:

Hello,

I thought of two new mechanisms that could make this game more realistic as well as add some additional layers of complexity.

The first one is 'encirclement'. Right now, I am only thinking of applying this to landlock cities. The idea is that if a landlock city is only surrounded by hostile territory, they should lose extra moral everyday and the units present within it should also lose a certain % of HP everyday (nothing too major, maybe like 5-10%). This would prevent people from camping non-stop in cities with max fortification, and add a reason for them to try and find an exit. Production time could also be increased in encircled cities. Of course this idea can easily be modified one way or another, (what are the penalties, criterion to be considered 'encircled' and etc...) this is only an initial proposal.

The second one is self-sabotage and/or pillaging. This allows you to dismantle building in provinces to gather a bit of resources out of it (e.g. 25% of the initial amount used to build it). This can help you further ruin cities (effectively making the 'burning land' strategy real) before they are captured, and also gather resources from captured ones that you don't really care about. Of course this process should take some time to occur, with more upgraded buildings taking longer. Perhaps having troops around could also help speed up the process.

Finally, a new building that should be added is the hospital. I feel like this was maybe added at some point, I cannot seem to remember, but I feel like it would be really useful if it was be in the game now. Especially when you have armies that are really upgraded, and having no significant way to recover their HP is a bit annoying as you would need to produce more troops and make them travel a long way to replenish your lines. Much like infrastructures. air bases and etc..., higher level hospital help improve the recovery process (e.g. lvl.1 gives 5% extra HP everyday, lvl.2 10% and etc...).

Anyone else think those ideas could make the game better?

Thanks

Hello,

I just want to discuss this comment:

1. Losing moral in that way would have no sense for anyone. On the first hand because if you are taking down an enemy country your trops will lose hp without fighting. Why should that be ok?

On the other hand because if you have talked to your neightbour to don't fight. So you can expand to one side and your neightbour to the other one. If this relationship is friendly or even neutral, why would the trops in that frontier lose hp just by keeping in your territory?

The provinces next to hostile territories already have a moral penalized. So I think this section is ok as it is right now. People who don't want to move from their inicial provincies are condemned to lose the game.

If you want reality, France in WWII tried to create bunkers and fortificate their lands and even with that lost against Germany.

2. I'm not totally agree with that because if you do sabotage, the citizens will get angry and will make a revolution. But maybe would be okay to can use another type of "spy" like a polititian to can increase the production of that province. Obviously with some ratios, like current spies work.

3. Finally, I'm totally agree with that new building and maybe could work like the fortifications. A hospital inside a city could reach a maximum of 10% bonification health (at max level) and a hospital outside a city could reach a maximum of 5% maybe.

And I want to add some more ideas:

4. Like in the old version, I think it was okay that a building have maintenance costs. That would make a bit more interesting the economy. And like it was, would be okay to can disable the building to don't consume more resources when it's not necessary.

5. Add an option to destroy a building. I think to support our mate comment of burning land, that would be okay to be implemented. Maybe with half time of destruction than building time.

6. I don't know if it was fixed in the new version. But I think it has no sense to can't use your teammates' aircraft carriers. So would be awsome to can use them.

7. This one is more to can check who in the game is a good player or not. In the last version it was easy to check just by clicking in "Diplomacy" and taking a look of the stats one by one. In the new version it's so annoying because you have to go one by one to see the current game stats (I don't think thats usefull but ok). To can see all the stats of the player (the most important data) we have to click one more option. That's annoying and confusing in a game of 30 people, imagine in a game of 100...

Would be awsome to set this part like the old version. Or would be perfect to can filter the stats in the diplomacy. Like filter by kills/deaths, conquered/lost provinces, player level, etc.

8. The last one is just to make easier to control more than one game at the same time. In last version, in PC when you select one game, this game was opened in a new tab. With that function you could have opened more than one game at a time. With the new version even clicing with the right click it's impossible to open the game in a new tab. So you can't open more than one game at a time. I think it was perfect like it was in previous version.

And that's all. I would like to know if you are agree or if you have some other ideas.

Thanks.

7 is a clear NO! more information is most of the time better. It is one click more - I give you that!

Hurbala wrote:

Magordito wrote:

Javikoli2 wrote:

Hello,

I thought of two new mechanisms that could make this game more realistic as well as add some additional layers of complexity.

The first one is 'encirclement'. Right now, I am only thinking of applying this to landlock cities. The idea is that if a landlock city is only surrounded by hostile territory, they should lose extra moral everyday and the units present within it should also lose a certain % of HP everyday (nothing too major, maybe like 5-10%). This would prevent people from camping non-stop in cities with max fortification, and add a reason for them to try and find an exit. Production time could also be increased in encircled cities. Of course this idea can easily be modified one way or another, (what are the penalties, criterion to be considered 'encircled' and etc...) this is only an initial proposal.

The second one is self-sabotage and/or pillaging. This allows you to dismantle building in provinces to gather a bit of resources out of it (e.g. 25% of the initial amount used to build it). This can help you further ruin cities (effectively making the 'burning land' strategy real) before they are captured, and also gather resources from captured ones that you don't really care about. Of course this process should take some time to occur, with more upgraded buildings taking longer. Perhaps having troops around could also help speed up the process.

Finally, a new building that should be added is the hospital. I feel like this was maybe added at some point, I cannot seem to remember, but I feel like it would be really useful if it was be in the game now. Especially when you have armies that are really upgraded, and having no significant way to recover their HP is a bit annoying as you would need to produce more troops and make them travel a long way to replenish your lines. Much like infrastructures. air bases and etc..., higher level hospital help improve the recovery process (e.g. lvl.1 gives 5% extra HP everyday, lvl.2 10% and etc...).

Anyone else think those ideas could make the game better?

Thanks

Hello,I just want to discuss this comment:

1. Losing moral in that way would have no sense for anyone. On the first hand because if you are taking down an enemy country your trops will lose hp without fighting. Why should that be ok?

On the other hand because if you have talked to your neightbour to don't fight. So you can expand to one side and your neightbour to the other one. If this relationship is friendly or even neutral, why would the trops in that frontier lose hp just by keeping in your territory?

The provinces next to hostile territories already have a moral penalized. So I think this section is ok as it is right now. People who don't want to move from their inicial provincies are condemned to lose the game.

If you want reality, France in WWII tried to create bunkers and fortificate their lands and even with that lost against Germany.

2. I'm not totally agree with that because if you do sabotage, the citizens will get angry and will make a revolution. But maybe would be okay to can use another type of "spy" like a polititian to can increase the production of that province. Obviously with some ratios, like current spies work.

3. Finally, I'm totally agree with that new building and maybe could work like the fortifications. A hospital inside a city could reach a maximum of 10% bonification health (at max level) and a hospital outside a city could reach a maximum of 5% maybe.

And I want to add some more ideas:

4. Like in the old version, I think it was okay that a building have maintenance costs. That would make a bit more interesting the economy. And like it was, would be okay to can disable the building to don't consume more resources when it's not necessary.

5. Add an option to destroy a building. I think to support our mate comment of burning land, that would be okay to be implemented. Maybe with half time of destruction than building time.

6. I don't know if it was fixed in the new version. But I think it has no sense to can't use your teammates' aircraft carriers. So would be awsome to can use them.

7. This one is more to can check who in the game is a good player or not. In the last version it was easy to check just by clicking in "Diplomacy" and taking a look of the stats one by one. In the new version it's so annoying because you have to go one by one to see the current game stats (I don't think thats usefull but ok). To can see all the stats of the player (the most important data) we have to click one more option. That's annoying and confusing in a game of 30 people, imagine in a game of 100...

Would be awsome to set this part like the old version. Or would be perfect to can filter the stats in the diplomacy. Like filter by kills/deaths, conquered/lost provinces, player level, etc.

8. The last one is just to make easier to control more than one game at the same time. In last version, in PC when you select one game, this game was opened in a new tab. With that function you could have opened more than one game at a time. With the new version even clicing with the right click it's impossible to open the game in a new tab. So you can't open more than one game at a time. I think it was perfect like it was in previous version.

And that's all. I would like to know if you are agree or if you have some other ideas.

Thanks.

5+6 is a YES!7 is a clear NO! more information is most of the time better. It is one click more - I give you that!

BRO it would be a lot good if we had option to destroy buildings. Eg if a province is under immediate enemy threat we can destroy all buildings to not let them fall into enemy hands. I also would like a new resource (Explosives) which is needed to destroy buildings. So:

1] New resource Explosives

2] Option to destroy buildings

3] Explosives resource is required to destroy buildings