To be fair almost all countries in ww2 basically knew the rough army size and composition of their enemies, it’s hard to hide millions of troops and equipment.
2 Sept 2023, 04:24
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
Reveal all armies mechanism should be removed
{The core of this thread}
First of all,I am referring to both the options of using gold or espionage to reveal all armies. It's a very powerful ability that i personally consider OP but most importantly i believe that it is the opposite of what the core value of the game is. It lifts almost completely the fog of war turning a WW2 strategy game into a mostly micromanagement focused game which removes the fun aspect for me at least while limiting itself in the strategy department unnecessarily.
{A lot of words}
Having the ability, even as a snapshot in daychange to see all your enemies troops positions so easily is OP.You can see and exploit weaknesses in his army composition or position,prepare for an incoming invasion well in advance (sea or land), see any stealth units lurking about, understand and predict future strategies or playstyles he will use,attack units that could not be attacked usually (like ships or submarines in the ocean far from shore or stealth units), see the areas in research he focuses on through his army levels, have a vague grasp of his economic ability, kind of predict where his unit-producing towns are etc etc.
I know you can mask your troops movements before daychange in an effort to mislead your enemy IF you are active enough but even then, there is only so much you can do. Redirecting your army to attack from an unexpected angle is not always very useful if the other player is on high alert and actively looking for you while preparing to welcome you.
As an example,using daychange reveal all armies mechanism, I managed to stop twice an invasion through the Suez canal protecting my ally against a gold user using only nuclear bombers (in groups of 1-3), destroying 120+ units in total while the enemy enjoyed total air supremacy. (Our only flying planes were the nukes)
I saw him when he was trying to cross the suez canal with reveal all armies and even after changing the paths multiple times it wasn't really hard (with some losses) to track him and attack him while avoiding his multiple stacks of interceptors. The only reason it worked is because I didn't sleep and micromanaged my way into achieving my goal, not because i had a strategy or was expecting the attack beforehand but because of the lifted fog of war. He got angry tho and later in the game when he was rushing to capture south america his planes were magically changing their patrol areas 1-3 secs after i was changing targets with my nukes.He must have a movie with so many snapshots....that's why both mechanisms only together should be removed (gold and espionage).
There was a time i was unaware of this ability to reveal all armies and to me it was more fun because i was using a more strategic approach to a game that it is its core value.For example, one time I had no idea where an impeding invasion might come from (I had the whole of Asia). I could only guess likely spots and reinforce them with parts of my army (my poor frontline fighters) while using multiple methods of early warning and protection with units. Heck, one time i used a line of submarines between europe and north america as early warning system for a poorly defended europe. If for whatever reason i lost the game it wouldn't be because i failed to possibly stay awake (or not work) and micromanage my units but because my strategy failed and thats ok.It's a strategy game after all.
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11 Replies
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
2 Sept 2023, 05:10
I agree with kostarak that the 2 reveal features are powerful.
But I don't agree they are bad for the game.
The spy feature is something experienced players and teams sharing military intel use all the time.
This is how we beat gold users, with good intel and good coordination.
Obnoxious noobs don't know about this feature, we do, and that's a good thing.
2 Sept 2023, 09:18
Knowing the rough army size and composition is completly defferent leugue than knowing the details.In ww2 a myriad of battles were already predetermined due to detailed intelligence.
And i agree with z00mz00m on the gold users and obnoxious noobs part.
2 Sept 2023, 11:39
They knew those details as well to an extent. It was not perfect but it worked. I think you should just be smart and make good use of intel, but you make some good points.
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
3 Sept 2023, 09:29
Skill issue momentCarking the 6th wrote:
I think you should just be smart
In all fairness tho the issue isn't the reveal all armies part itself, but how absurdly easy it is for players to use. Inevitably by the late game players have enough money lying around to spend on spies, and since there is no limit to where you place or how many you can place, it makes it pretty easy. It is sorta balanced with the fact money is deducted at day change, so you can't have a million spies since you'd lose nearly all of them to the enemy or they just desert. This is prolly why the devs have kept that aspect of the game unchanged (along with them being busy with other stuff).
I'd support changes like putting a cap on the number of spies you can have in one province, and even limiting spies to cities/cores (at least the spies that can reveal all, anyways). It doesn't make much sense that you can place a mil sab spy in a random province 50 provinces away from the capital and suddenly gain the knowledge to your opponent's armies. Obv, if they do implement such a change, a rebalancing of the gold applications for revealing armies is necessary.
3 Sept 2023, 17:50
Not to mention that mil sabotage’s main job is to destroy buildings, many of which are out of cores, and that this might mess up.
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
7 Sept 2023, 01:13
alternative idea: high level data like that should only be allowed to be extracted from your capital, local spies can of course still detect local units but a full army reveal should be pretty rare and only be able to happen in your capital, the same thing with intercepted communications, should only be able to happen at your capital that way you KNOW how to stop people from getting your most important data, its a bit BS how me and my allies plan can completely fall apart because somehow spy billy joe in middle of f****** nowhere mountains intercepted a message send from my capital to somebody else's capital
7 Sept 2023, 01:15
So make them effectively useless as your only need a bit of money to prevent any spies? That wouldn’t work out. Maybe core provinces or cities only, but even then I’d rather just have what we have now. Spy back against them to make their plans as moot as yours.
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
7 Sept 2023, 01:28
The devs have replied to this topic before. Wont happen.
“A battle fought without determination is a battle lost.” - Josip Broz Tito
9 Sept 2023, 18:13
Carking the 6th wrote:
So make them effectively useless as your only need a bit of money to prevent any spies? That wouldn’t work out. Maybe core provinces or cities only, but even then I’d rather just have what we have now. Spy back against them to make their plans as moot as yours.
do you have any idea how many times ive still had to repair a factory in a city i KNEW had spies because the bloody rat "was caught AFTER completing his mission" id argue contra's need a way higher succes rate because being set back 14 hours of repair for the price of 4K a day or 14K if he gets caught is ridiculous even in the the middle stages of the game thats like 2 hours of money production for 14 hours of repairs
9 Sept 2023, 18:21
That would make spies seem even more useless to players than they already are seen as. Spies are made to do that, and there is no point in using them if they will just fail most of the time. In the end:
Brando Dilla wrote:
The devs have replied to this topic before. Wont happen.
CarKing the 6th of the Abrahamic Caliphate
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