I have a new idea to make navy more realistic and more challenging [this is a strategy game after all ]. What if ships carry fuel on board, and you refuel in one of two ways: a Refueling Ship or by docking in port. If a ship runs out of fuel it can not move until refueled. A new ship class, Refueling Ship, would be required for this new idea. The Refueling ship would have low HP, low damage, but could carry immense amounts of fuel. I hope this get implemented as I think it would make this game a lot more fun and challenging!
9 Replies
21 Apr 2022, 14:45
This is the slippery slope to overdetailed gaming. If you do fuel, why not ammo? Then it would be food and so on and so forth until you even have to delivery the mail for troop morale to heal. In a way, the way ships are handled it is not much different than planes on patrol (you just are not told this like you are for planes on patrol), just imagine them returning to base to heal and handle all of those details. I constantly note that players think that it is one ship or one plane while in fact that one icon represents a squadron of ships and planes (OR batteries of Artillery, Tank battalions, Infantry regiment, etc.)
"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the later than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte "Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success." ~ Erwin Rommel
22 Apr 2022, 00:57
I get that, but ground troops can easily get any supply they need easily, whereas ships can not. Ammunition wouldn't be part of this
22 Apr 2022, 08:36
S Schmidt wrote:
This is the slippery slope to overdetailed gaming. If you do fuel, why not ammo? Then it would be food and so on and so forth until you even have to delivery the mail for troop morale to heal. In a way, the way ships are handled it is not much different than planes on patrol (you just are not told this like you are for planes on patrol), just imagine them returning to base to heal and handle all of those details. I constantly note that players think that it is one ship or one plane while in fact that one icon represents a squadron of ships and planes (OR batteries of Artillery, Tank battalions, Infantry regiment, etc.)
Well they're different than planes; those have to stay within range of their air base, which is very limiting to their operational region. It isn't very realistic that ships can operate anywhere on the globe without any logistical base at all. Maybe it would be nice if ships couldn't operate outside the range of a naval base? These would be much larger than an air base of course (easily spanning London to New York for example, but Tokyo to Los Angeles would be on the verge). It would automatically give some function to all those small islands as well (other than the irrealistic cities and morale farms on them) and maybe generate something like the island-hopping operations in the Pacific in-game as well.
22 Apr 2022, 11:34 (edited)
In no way does this sound like it makes the game more fun. In a 4x speed 100 player map as a Coalition with hundreds of units- the LAST thing I want to worry about is ANYTHING needing to be refueled, rearmed, re-supplied....
"Es gibt keine verzweifelten Lagen, es gibt nur verzweifelte Menschen" - There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people. General Heinz Guderian(Schneller Heinz) Kenny says - You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away And know when to run
22 Apr 2022, 13:24
You have to remember that, units aren't just the ones shown. An infantry unit includes medics and grenadiers and such, and, similar to that, naval units include several support ships. I feel that adding something like this will just overcomplicate the game for new players.
Kind regards, Donk Bytro game addict and avid CoW player. "Γ" > "th" Π‘Π»Π°Π²Π° Π£ΠΊΡΠ°ΡΠ½Ρ!
22 Apr 2022, 19:52
Not to be insulting but I do not think that you "get it", your comments show in fact that you do not get the points I was making at all. First off, if you did get it you would understand the slippery slope of your idea. Otherwise you would not have said:
General Freiheit wrote:
Ammunition wouldn't be part of this
It would only be the beginning that would culminate at my farcical Mail delivery for morale so units could heal. No matter that you say it would only be for fuel but then the guy that thinks Ammo resupply idea would say but you did fuel and so on.
Second, you obviously do not know your WWII history or you would never had said:
General Freiheit wrote:
but ground troops can easily get any supply they need easily
tell that to the Germans surrounded at Stalingrad OR to the ALLIES in Normandy after the D-Day breakout. The Red Ball Express almost failed at keeping the Armies supplied. Had that happened there is a very good chance that what you are currently seeing happen to the Russian forces in the Ukraine would have happened to the Allies in Western Europe, tanks out of fuel and no ammo that were abandoned on the side of the road.
"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the later than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte "Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success." ~ Erwin Rommel
23 Apr 2022, 06:55
Oml is this an idea that makes islands actually useful?
Make HWW all in, a staple gamemode
24 Apr 2022, 03:18
K.Rokossovski wrote:
S Schmidt wrote:
This is the slippery slope to overdetailed gaming. If you do fuel, why not ammo? Then it would be food and so on and so forth until you even have to delivery the mail for troop morale to heal. In a way, the way ships are handled it is not much different than planes on patrol (you just are not told this like you are for planes on patrol), just imagine them returning to base to heal and handle all of those details. I constantly note that players think that it is one ship or one plane while in fact that one icon represents a squadron of ships and planes (OR batteries of Artillery, Tank battalions, Infantry regiment, etc.)
Well they're different than planes; those have to stay within range of their air base, which is very limiting to their operational region. It isn't very realistic that ships can operate anywhere on the globe without any logistical base at all. Maybe it would be nice if ships couldn't operate outside the range of a naval base? These would be much larger than an air base of course (easily spanning London to New York for example, but Tokyo to Los Angeles would be on the verge). It would automatically give some function to all those small islands as well (other than the irrealistic cities and morale farms on them) and maybe generate something like the island-hopping operations in the Pacific in-game as well.
This is actually a good idea, and the range can be reduced for rural provinces (less supply after all) and increased for cities. It might be hard to implement, I suppose, since the game would need to factor in the range of the ship and the range of its guns. I really would like this to be implemented for convoys, since then you would need an allied port/island to facilitate any long range invasion.
24 Apr 2022, 05:04
First, a few facts on the history of naval ships and their power sources. After the Age of Sail ships began the transition from sail to a combo of sail and steam, until it was steam only. How were steam ships powered? By coal. Fleets would have coal tenders, more commonly called Colliers. But they could not carry all the coal needed for long voyages thus the major European Powers, America and Japan included used islands across the Atlantic and/or Pacific as fueling stations or coaling stations. Once ships transitioned to Internal Combustion engine from steam engines, oil replaced coal but these remote island were used for the same purpose, to provide fuel for the fleet but by WWII most of these fueling station islands were obsolete for general use by ships except the Fleet Oilers. Ships such as USS Yorktown (CV 10), unless in port, would be fueled by ships such as the USS Neosho (AO 23). During WWII ships could cross the Atlantic without having to refuel.
Now to address the need for naval refueling and/or bases for long range invasions. Operation Torch, the invasion of North Africa by US and British forces took place by warships and troop transports launched FROM the United States and the United Kingdom.
BTW I can provide links to sites that provide info on naval logistics in the Pacific as well as info on Operation Torch.
"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the later than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never." ~ Napoleon Bonaparte "Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success." ~ Erwin Rommel
]. What if ships carry fuel on board, and you refuel in one of two ways: a Refueling Ship or by docking in port. If a ship runs out of fuel it can not move until refueled. A new ship class, Refueling Ship, would be required for this new idea. The Refueling ship would have low HP, low damage, but could carry immense amounts of fuel. I hope this get implemented as I think it would make this game a lot more fun and challenging! 
