Sonar

Absolutely correct, in RL destroyers could locate submarines.

And in contrast, submarines could attack unrecognized without being tied up in close combat; here in the game, however, an attack will set them in melee.

..and after an attack subs could (try) to disappear in every direction they wanted and also in different depths; here in the game, however, there are only the given and known sea routes and no different depths.

But, since CoW is not a simulation all units are more or less adapted for better playability as a browser-(board)game.

Imagine, submarines could strike suddenly and from deep as in the RL and disappear unrecognized -- would be an extremely unsatisfactory game (and a lot of lamentations of many inexperienced players would be foreseeable) ..

..therefore subs are adapted and have only "melee torpedoes" and have to surface to any attack and are visible at surface for the full combat time ..

..and to compensate this enormous but necessary disadvantage of the submarines also their hunters was adapted.

So you have to look at destroyers, submarines and naval bombers in context. >> The naval bomber is the only one who can locate submarines, but if he attacks, he suffers AA damage from the sub/s (because fights with airplanes are mathematically always close-combats); The destroyer can not locate the submarine, but he can fight a located one from distance without suffering own damage. >> The naval bomber locates and the destroyer fights -- stone, scissors, paper >> strategy at its finest -- was it once before ..

..but in the past, this fine stone-scissors-paper-strategy has been softened more and more in favor of a hammer-on-anvil-action-tactic by extremely lowering the AA of subs what makes them an easy prey for naval bombers -- even without destroyers help ..

..so please don't ask for or bring in more disadvantages to the submarines, because subs are already still now nothing more than lame patrol boats.

But, on the other hand, if you really whish that destroyers must to be able to locate submarines, then at the same time submarines should no longer be melee units -- and a random-generator would have to be installed for the destroyers >> whether they can discover a sub or can sometimes not; and as well for the naval bombers.

But does anyone really want that in this game? I Think it is better so as it is now.

i see your point but im talking at a perspective of more open waters with no naval bombers in the mix at all and to early game for people to have made carriars and bombers watching every bit of the sea in world war. and with smaller games like clash of nations people never really focus on naval bombers and watch the water constantly so i feel it is still well balanced in these matters. Even if the sonar would be attached to just subs in this case so subs can see other subs then i feel it could be more fair in this matter, but i just hate when a sub surprises me while im escorting units when i know there is a way(and should be a way in game) to see subs with naval units and cant in any way avoid them even if im active and watching my units the whole time. Desroyers and/or subs should have sonar so we can see subs close range plus another balance for this as well is that both people cant do anything about it unless they are active and regardless of the opinon on this matter its a fact that activity is a balance feature its just an unpredicted one which is what makes the game so tactical so if your destroyer is aproaching a sub and it can see it but your not online to see it there before it does a direct attack then it will do a direct attack unless you plan more. Its a way to have more of an advantage over subs and actualy see them as well. I dont feel at the slightest that this will break subs entirely. If anything just give subs a slight buff with this idea so they stand a better chance or like i said just have subs use sonar.

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the game as it is already provides you with a solution to the problem of the vulnerability of a troop transport stack to enemy subs. Put a small sub stack ahead of the big stack to move out in front. It will encounter the enemy subs first and be in melee with them. Behind that your big stack is moving, at the same speed as the subs because you also put a sub in the big stack. The big stack contains destroyers to range-attack the enemy subs. The big stack has fire control set to aggressive so that it will go to work on the enemy subs ASAP (and not move forward into the melee where the enemy subs would massacre your troop transports).

Somewhere in this thread, someone called subs nothing more than glorified patrol boats. Not true because they are very good for killing cruisers and battleships. Great against noobs who build unprotected stacks of cruisers and/or battleships. They even have some use against better players to make them spend their game resources and personal time countering your flexible options when you have subs in your mix.

dioglaert wrote:

The big stack has fire control set to aggressive so that it will go to work on the enemy subs ASAP

I very much oppose giving sonar to destroyers.

While a different representation of sonar and other sensors for sub detection in the game might make sense - read my proposal in --> this thread <--.

GenHitman wrote:

so im not sure about anyone else but im pretty sure that naval units in RL have sonar to detect subs am i wrong? i feel if anything since destroyers have a primary purpose to destroy subs they should have sonar to detect subs nearby(in view range). its pretty anoying to know that i have an advantage against subs in destroyers but cant even see them to attack them in the first place it makes no sense to me really. I would like to see this added to destroyers atleast seeing how thats its main purpose dont you think?