Commandos, as a specialized and elite infantry, are highly effective at ambushing enemy forces and are particularly strong against light armor. However, a significant problem arises when one is able to research them, as such research becomes available as early as day 4 with the allied doctrine. By this point, players are already faced with level 3 armored cars, motorized infantry, and interceptors, all of which are capable of revealing commando units. This undermines the role of commandos in ambushing units, and renders their specialization in destroying light armor moot.
It is suggested that the stealth level of level 1 commandos be increased by 2 (Level 1 Commandos have level 3 stealth and with each level their stealth increases by 1 point), as they are elite units. It is baffling that militias have a higher stealth level than well-trained commandos by day 4. In contrast, the naval stealth dynamic is not broken, as submarines, destroyers, and naval bombers all have a similar dynamic where staying hidden from scout units is possible by being one level higher than them, depending on the doctrine. This dynamic persists until level 6, where destroyers reveal all levels of submarines, which is not problematic as it occurs late in the game.
In contrast, commandos do not have this dynamic, and players must wait until day 18 to out-level and remain hidden from Pan-Asian level 3 armored cars, which are available on day 4. This renders commandos useless if they are easily revealed, particularly given their inadequate anti-aircraft capabilities and susceptibility to being taken out by tactical bombers.
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Commandoes are already useful. Good idea, but I don't think it's necessary.
yes. Commandos should have a buff.
I like the idea of commandos but never actually use them. Something like this would be nice, a small buff to increase the frequency of potential use cases without making them overpowered.
I think the buff, will increase the use of commandos.jubjub bird wrote:
I like the idea of commandos but never actually use them. Something like this would be nice, a small buff to increase the frequency of potential use cases without making them overpowered.
This change is long overdue. Alas, Bytro doesn't move on the subject.
commandos now suck. once i research them they're already revealed by level 1 armored cars
I never used commandos, but if bytro actually makes level 1 commandos have level 3 stealth, i will for sure use those to ambush my enemies. Other infantry units are better than commandos. But if this gets implemented this will make commandos useful for surprise attacks. But for now i will stick with militias to do the surprising, but until the update is made i will use them commandos.
they actually aren't useful. After the new infantry update Commandos are underpowered and expensive at the same time, while cheaper units like militias are much stronger and are able to be hidden from any scout unit early in the game. Commandos are just infantry light tanks, but instead of having the speed of light tanks they are slow and have stealth capabilities of a 6 year old who plays hide and seek.Lord Crayfish wrote:
Commandoes are already useful. Good idea, but I don't think it's necessary.
exactly, a simple adjustment on stealth will do wonders.
yep and also make them have more damage and 50% bonus in urban also
Commandos lvl1 should have Lvl 2 stealth at least!
This proposal says they should be 3 stealth, and that's an even better thing
Right, this is all about stealth. Attack stats are not the issue. Making them a little bit stronger wouldn't change anything. Making them a little bit stealthier would make a big difference.K.Rokossovski wrote:
This proposal says they should be 3 stealth, and that's an even better thing
Level 3 stealth is an ideal option, particularly on the fourth day of research in conjunction with the allied doctrine where you can research commandos at the earliest. At this stage, other units with level 3 scout abilities such as interceptors (excluding Comintern), Pan-Asian armored cars, and Axis motorized infantry can detect a level 3 stealth commando. This approach ensures a fair and balanced gameplay experience for both scouts and stealth units.K.Rokossovski wrote:
This proposal says they should be 3 stealth, and that's an even better thing
Destructo the Great wrote:
yep and also make them have more damage and 50% bonus in urban also
Or just get rid of them, and encourage players to build militia for the stealth role.
Buffing commando combat would take them in a complete different direction, more like an elite infantry unit. That's what paratroopers do. Commandos are supposed to be small formations that perform special ops missions, in secret, behind enemy lines. Small meaning low attack+defense values, and low HP. They should get in, sabotage an airfield, and get out. They shouldn't even be able to take land. Just sabotage and recon.
My main objective is to enhance the stealth capability of Commandos in Call of War, so that they can perform according to their intended role. However, I believe that any damage boost should be limited to specific doctrines and not be excessive. I don't want Commandos to become overpowered like they were in the first version of Call of War where they were essentially Infantry on steroids.z00mz00m wrote:
Or just get rid of them, and encourage players to build militia for the stealth role.Buffing commando combat would take them in a complete different direction, more like an elite infantry unit. That's what paratroopers do. Commandos are supposed to be small formations that perform special ops missions, in secret, behind enemy lines. Small meaning low attack+defense values, and low HP. They should get in, sabotage an airfield, and get out. They shouldn't even be able to take land. Just sabotage and recon.
Furthermore, I'm concerned that if Commandos are unable to capture land, it could be a controversial decision among players. I've seen this implemented in Conflict of Nations, but I don't think many players will be in favor of it. In conclusion, I believe that Commandos should be upgraded to level 3, regardless of whether they can capture land or not.
However, it's important to consider that implementing this change (commandos not being able to capture land) may require adjustments to how buildings take damage from commandos, because ground units does the most damage to buildings when it's actually captured. Overall, my goal is to balance the gameplay experience so that both stealth and scout units are equally valuable and enjoyable to use.
I totally get it. Just brainstorming with you to see how far we can take this.
The most well known commando operation in WW2 was the British commandos raid on St Nazaire: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid
612 men landed to destroy a dry dock, which was the equivalent of a level 5 naval port. They had a specific target. This is not like strategic bombers or long range artillery blasting random parts of the city. This was targeted. This is what CoW commandos need to do, destroy specific structures, not take cities to destroy random structures as a side effect.
I'm afraid that if we take the discussion in this direction, we will just never get it. In the code base, there are no facilities for land units that do NOT conquer land; so that basically means code changes on the server side code, which I believe is legacy code written by people who no longer work at the company, and current people have a hard time figuring out how it works, let alone make changes to it. Just take all the recent stealth problems as an example: there is simply no one around anymore who has a deep understanding of the server-side code (the actual "game rules" as opposed to visualizing it) and any change made to them has a huge risk of producing hosts of new bugs. Bytro is understandably reluctant to go down that road.
Something as fundamental as "a land unit which can not conquer", including all its edge cases, is a HARD thing to implement; and since we're only talking about one single units, doesn't have a really big "business value" (and I mean that as: "game value"). So that means no matter how much we're talking, Bytro will just not do it.
That may even be the case for the original proposal by OP: code-wise, units may not have a separate "stealth level", it is simply the the same as their overall level instead. If this is the case, we should take this discussion into a different direction altogether: create two new levels of commando's, BEFORE the current L1, so that the current "first commando unit" becomes L3 instead. In an extreme scenario, these might even be dummy levels, just a research step for 10 food and a 0.1-0.1 unit along with it; only to make sure that the CURRENT first commando unit can "legally" be called an L3 unit. Of course it would also be possible to create two real, balanced commando levels available on, say, days 1 and 3 for example, slightly weaker than the current one. After all, was it really technically hard or impossible to create such teams in the early days of the war, or even in the 1930's? Covertly going into enemy territory is as old as warfare itself, isn't it?
I never used commandos too, but for sure I'll try new option.Intermolecular forces wrote:
I never used commandos, but if bytro actually makes level 1 commandos have level 3 stealth, i will for sure use those to ambush my enemies. Other infantry units are better than commandos. But if this gets implemented this will make commandos useful for surprise attacks. But for now i will stick with militias to do the surprising, but until the update is made i will use them commandos.
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