Commandos, as a specialized and elite infantry, are highly effective at ambushing enemy forces and are particularly strong against light armor. However, a significant problem arises when one is able to research them, as such research becomes available as early as day 4 with the allied doctrine. By this point, players are already faced with level 3 armored cars, motorized infantry, and interceptors, all of which are capable of revealing commando units. This undermines the role of commandos in ambushing units, and renders their specialization in destroying light armor moot.
It is suggested that the stealth level of level 1 commandos be increased by 2 (Level 1 Commandos have level 3 stealth and with each level their stealth increases by 1 point), as they are elite units. It is baffling that militias have a higher stealth level than well-trained commandos by day 4. In contrast, the naval stealth dynamic is not broken, as submarines, destroyers, and naval bombers all have a similar dynamic where staying hidden from scout units is possible by being one level higher than them, depending on the doctrine. This dynamic persists until level 6, where destroyers reveal all levels of submarines, which is not problematic as it occurs late in the game.
In contrast, commandos do not have this dynamic, and players must wait until day 18 to out-level and remain hidden from Pan-Asian level 3 armored cars, which are available on day 4. This renders commandos useless if they are easily revealed, particularly given their inadequate anti-aircraft capabilities and susceptibility to being taken out by tactical bombers.
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Interesting, thoughtful post. If stealth level is the same as unit level (which would make sense, with stealth as a toggle) then I think I like the idea of adding low level commandos best. It'd be interesting to have commandos available on Day 1 that do decent anti-LA, giving another option to fight ACs/LTs. Add more frequent commando levels that keep similar pace to militia and now we're talking.K.Rokossovski wrote:
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If charging the stealth level independently of the research level is too difficult and not worth the cost, then just get rid of the commando unit. Addition by subtraction. Encourage players to use militia to do commando things instead, and to upgrade their infantry if they want roided up infantry units.
Didn't the game designer "freezy" vote yes on the poll? i think if he can't do that he would've voted no or not vote at all. I would like to hear his opinions on this, so we can get a sense of what we're brainstorming here.
The game designer "freezy" voted yes on the poll, i assume if he couldn't make it happen, he would've voted no or not vote at all. And units DO have a separate scout/stealth levels, level 7 interceptors and naval bombers have level 6 scout.K.Rokossovski wrote:
That may even be the case for the original proposal by OP: code-wise, units may not have a separate "stealth level", it is simply the the same as their overall level instead.
Very interesting take on that, but there's a problem, if we make the make the level 1 and 2 commandos weaker, which mean less damage and less speed, aren't they just going to be offensive militias, but a bit more expensive.K.Rokossovski wrote:
If this is the case, we should take this discussion into a different direction altogether: create two new levels of commando's, BEFORE the current L1, so that the current "first commando unit" becomes L3 instead. In an extreme scenario, these might even be dummy levels, just a research step for 10 food and a 0.1-0.1 unit along with it; only to make sure that the CURRENT first commando unit can "legally" be called an L3 unit. Of course it would also be possible to create two real, balanced commando levels available on, say, days 1 and 3 for example, slightly weaker than the current one. After all, was it really technically hard or impossible to create such teams in the early days of the war, or even in the 1930's? Covertly going into enemy territory is as old as warfare itself, isn't it?
Side note: If we do make level 1 commandos have level 3 stealth then in their max level (4) they will have level 6 stealth which makes them undetectable against elite armored cars, which makes sense because they're made to counter light armored units.
I just want the game designer come in and let us know if we're going the right direction or not.
What if commandos didn't damage all buildings, but automatically attacked the highest-level building instead, that way, they don't damage random structures, coupled with the feature to stop them from being able to conquer territory, would make commandos ideal for taking out an enemy's unit production, instead of an "Infantry on steroids", or typical land unit, they would be a general special forces troop, for quick, covert operations that cripple your enemy's infrastructure so that he can't fight your actual fighting forces.z00mz00m wrote:
I totally get it. Just brainstorming with you to see how far we can take this.The most well known commando operation in WW2 was the British commandos raid on St Nazaire: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid
612 men landed to destroy a dry dock, which was the equivalent of a level 5 naval port. They had a specific target. This is not like strategic bombers or long range artillery blasting random parts of the city. This was targeted. This is what CoW commandos need to do, destroy specific structures, not take cities to destroy random structures as a side effect.
Targeting the highest level building would be better than targeting a random building, but still not very useful. I would never bother building commandos for that. Only if I can pick the target, like the fort or the airfield.
I would like to implement that, but what is more likely is that Bytro will implement a "Fire Control" mechanic to these new commandos like battleships and artillery, probably with a different fire control option to attack different types of buildings, civilian, military, or the highest/lowest level.z00mz00m wrote:
Targeting the highest level building would be better than targeting a random building, but still not very useful. I would never bother building commandos for that. Only if I can pick the target, like the fort or the airfield.
I've thought about adding that in my original post, but after realizing how unfair it is to players that don't have premium, i decided against that as it will be controversial and pushes the game into pay to win. However if they do make the Fire Control mechanic to the commandos, they should make it free to only commandos.Zaktty wrote:
I would like to implement that, but what is more likely is that Bytro will implement a "Fire Control" mechanic to these new commandos like battleships and artillery, probably with a different fire control option to attack different types of buildings, civilian, military, or the highest/lowest level.
DoubleWideSurprise wrote:
I've thought about adding that in my original post, but after realizing how unfair it is to players that don't have premium, i decided against that as it will be controversial and pushes the game into pay to win. However if they do make the Fire Control mechanic to the commandos, they should make it free to only commandos.Zaktty wrote:
I would like to implement that, but what is more likely is that Bytro will implement a "Fire Control" mechanic to these new commandos like battleships and artillery, probably with a different fire control option to attack different types of buildings, civilian, military, or the highest/lowest level.
More fire control and other HC features would make the game less pay to win, compared to other ways to spend money in the game.
I agree 100% even militias are better hiding right now
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